Follow-up question about ignorant Christians.?

Question

People tell me that I need a history lesson because "the bible is not 1700 years old!" But it is.

Synod of Hippo in 393 AD is when the Holy Bible was made.

Some people tell me that I need a history lesson because "The Book of Revelation is the last book written!"

But it wasn't. Many books were written after it. (Check it out here http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/ )

Some people tell me I need a History lesson because "The dead sea scrolls aren't scriptures about Jesus and are strictly Old Testament!"

When in all actually they talk about events from 200 BC to 70(ish) AD. And I do admit I may be confused...but wasn't the Gospel of Judas, Gospel of Thomas, etc. found in the cave system??

Did no one even bother reading to see my question?

My question is at the very end of the original post...maybe you should read sometime, well read something besides the bible.

Thanks Elissa for explaining to to me. I Googled it, trying to find where the Gospel of Thomas(etc.) was found but nothing came up...maybe I just worded it wrong?

Answer 1

It would be alike wearisome and useless to enumerate even the more prominent applications made of the Apocalypse. Racial hatred and religious rancour have at all times found in its vision much suitable and gratifying matter. Such persons as Mohammed, the Pope, Napoleon, etc., have in turn been identified with the beast and the harlot. To the "reformers" particularly the Apocalypse was an inexhaustible quarry where to dig for invectives that they might hurl then against the Roman hierarchy. The seven hills of Rome, the scarlet robes of the cardinals, and the unfortunate abuses of the papal court made the application easy and tempting. Owing to the patient and strenuous research of scholars, the interpretation of the Apocalypse has been transferred to a field free from the odium theologicum. But then the meaning of the Seer is determined by the rules of common exegesis. Apart from the resurrection, the millennium, and the plagues preceding the final consummation, they see in his visions references to the leading events of his time. Their method of interpretation may be called historic as compared with the theological and political application of former ages. The key to the mysteries of the book they find in 17:8-14. For thus says the Seer: "Let here the mind that hath understanding give heed".

The beast from the sea that had received plenitude of power from the dragon, or Satan, is the Roman Empire, or rather, Caesar, its supreme representative. The token of the beast with which its servants are marked is the image of the emperor on the coins of the realm. This seems to be the obvious meaning of the passage, that all business transactions, all buying and selling were impossible to them that had not the mark of the beast (Apocalypse 13:17). Against this interpretation it is objected that the Jews at the time of Christ had no scruple in handling money on which the image of Caesar was stamped (Matthew 22:15-22). But it should be borne in mind that the horror of the Jews for the imperial images was principally due to the policy of Caligula. He confiscated several of their synagogues, changing them into heathen temples by placing his statue in them. He even sought to erect an image of himself in the Temple of Jerusalem .
The seven heads of the beast are seven emperors. Five of them the Seer says are fallen. They are Augustus Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius, and Nero. The year of Nero's death is A.D. 68. The Seer goes on to say "One is", namely Vespasian, A.D. 70-79. He is the sixth emperor. The seventh, we are told by the Seer, "is not yet come. But when he comes his reign will be short". Titus is meant, who reigned but two years (79-81). The eighth emperor is Domitian (81-96). Of him the Seer has something very peculiar to say. He is identified with the beast. He is described as the one that "was and is not and shall come up out of the bottomless pit" (17:8). In verse 11 it is added: "And the beast which was and is not: the same also is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into destruction".

All this sounds like oracular language. But the clue to its solution is furnished by a popular belief largely spread at the time. The death of Nero had been witnessed by few. Chiefly in the East a notion had taken hold of the mind of the people that Nero was still alive. Gentiles, Jews, and Christians were under the illusion that he was hiding himself, and as was commonly thought, he had gone over to the Parthians, the most troublesome foes of the empire. From there they expected him to return at the head of a mighty army to avenge himself on his enemies. The existence of this fanciful belief is a well-attested historic fact. Tacitus speaks of it: "Achaia atque Asia falso exterrit velut Nero adventaret, vario super ejus exitu rumore eoque pluribus vivere eum fingentibus credentibusque" . So also Dio Chrysostomus: kai nyn (about A.D. 100) eti pantes epithymousi zen oi de pleistoi kai oiontai . Thus the contemporaries of the Seer believed Nero to be alive and expected his return. The Seer either shared their belief or utilized it for his own purpose.

Nero had made a name for himself by his cruelty and licentiousness. The Christians in particular had reason to dread him. Under him the first persecution took place. The second occurred under Domitian. But unlike the previous one, it was not confined to Italy, but spread throughout the provinces. Many Christians were put to death, many were banished . In this way the Seer was led to regard Domitian as a second Nero, "Nero redivivus". Hence he described him as "the one that was, that is not, and that is to return". Hence also he counts him as the eighth and at the same time makes him one of the preceding seven, the fifth, Nero. The identification of the two emperors suggested itself all the more readily since even pagan authors called Domitian a second Nero . The popular belief concerning Nero's death and return seems to be referred to also in the passage (13:3): "And I saw one of its heads as it were slain to death: and its death's wound was healed".

The ten horns are commonly explained as the vassal rulers under the supremacy of Rome. They are described as kings (basileis), here to be taken in a wider sense, that they are not real kings, but received power to rule with the beast. Their power, moreover, is but for one hour, signifying its short duration and instability (17:17). The Seer has marked the beast with the number 666. His purpose was that by this number people may know it. He that has understanding, let him count the number of the beast. For it is the number of a man: and his number is six hundred and sixty-six. A human number, intelligible by the common rules of investigation. We have here an instance of Jewish gematria. Its object is to conceal a name by substituting for it a cipher of equal numerical value to the letters composing it. For a long time interpreters tried to decipher the number 666 by means of the Greek alphabet. Their efforts have yielded no satisfactory result. Better success has been obtained by using the Hebrew alphabet. Many scholars have come to the conclusion that Nero is meant. For when the name "Nero Caesar" is spelled with Hebrew letters, it yields the cipher 666.

The second beast, that from the land, the pseudoprophet whose office was to assist the beast from the sea, probably signifies the work of seduction carried on by apostate Christians. They endeavoured to make their fellow Christians adopt the heathen practices and submit themselves to the cultus of the Caesar. They are not unlikely the Nicolaitans of the seven Epistles. For they are there compared to Balaam and Jezabel seducing the Israelites to idolatry and fornication. The woman in travail is a personification of the synagogue or the church. Her first-born is Christ, her other seed is the community of the faithful.

In this interpretation, of which we have given a summary, there are two difficulties:


In the enumeration of the emperors three are passed over, Galba, Otho, and Vitellius. But this omission may be explained by the shortness of their reigns. Each one of the three reigned but a few months.
Tradition assigns the Apocalypse to the reign of Domitian. But according to the computation given above, the Seer himself assigns his work to the reign of Vespasian. For if this computation be correct, Vespasian is the emperor whom he designates as "the one that is". To this objection, however, it may be answered that it was the custom of apocalyptic writers, of Daniel, Enoch, and the Sibylline books, to cast their visions into the form of prophecies and give them the appearance of being the work of an earlier date. No literary fraud was thereby intended. It was merely a peculiar style of writing adopted as suiting their subject. The Seer of the Apocalypse follows this practice. Though actually banished to Patmos in the reign of Domitian, after the destruction of Jerusalem, he wrote as if he had been there and seen his visions in the reign of Vespasian when the temple perhaps yet existed.
We cannot conclude without mentioning the theory advanced by the German scholar Vischer. He holds the Apocalypse to have been originally a purely Jewish composition, and to have been changed into a Christian work by the insertion of those sections that deal with Christian subjects. From a doctrinal point of view, we think, it cannot be objected to. There are other instances where inspired writers have availed themselves of non-canonical literature. Intrinsically considered it is not improbable. The Apocalypse abounds in passages which bear no specific Christian character but, on the contrary, show a decidedly Jewish complexion. Yet on the whole the theory is but a conjecture.

Answer 2

In some of these points, you are correct. The Bible, as a canonized unit, is not old at all. Of course, the texts included in it range widely in their antiquity.

It's hard to state unequivocally when any of the books of the NT were written, but it's certainly true that the order of the books in the NT has nothing whatever to do with the order in which they were written. Revelation was probably one of the last books written, as were the gospels, late in the 1st century.

However, the Dead Sea Scrolls found at Qumran are, indeed, Old Testament and Deuterocanonical texts. There are no "Gospels of..." or other NT texts found in the caves at Qumran. Some of them *date to* the time of Jesus, but their content is all Hebrew Bible content.

Answer 3

Yes, you need a history lesson. Badly. The Dead Sea Scrolls have nothing to do with the Gnostic Gospels.

Truly....please take a class in Basic Church History 101 at any Community College. You will improve your so-called "knowledge" 200%.

Answer 4

I will make one point... at least most of the texts you mention have some arceological and historical validity... unlike the false claims of J.Smith and his successors.... but that does not make them"Christian" texts... The Bible of The True Christian Faith was written over a period of many hundreds of years... The original texts were lost even befor the councel you cite... no original text of The Bible is existant today.... For those of The Faith it is not The Bible that is the basis of our Faith... it is God... The Bible does not prove God... But God will prove The Bible to all who honestly come seeking, and are open to the leading of God through The Holy Spirit.

Answer 5

Sounds like you're talking to the wrong people.

The bible was written over thousands of years. Not sure when the first one was complied. You might be arguing semantics. Written vs. complied.

And Revelations is the last book in the bible, not necessarily the last book written.

Answer 6

there exchange right into a study I examine, asserting an extremely severe share of Christians particularly have not study the bible. situation is, in the event that they study it with the aid of and saved an open recommendations, preserving status as a Christian could be complicated. together as you think of they're unaware of the bible, why are not you slaying animals in worship to God? Did you paintings on the Sabbath? 'reason you may desire to be killed, if so. There are discrepancies in the bible that pushes people away whilst they understand basically how merciless the God they believed in could be. thus, lack of expertise is bliss. enable them to have faith what they want - a minimum of they suspect interior the comparable element you do, for the main section.

Answer 7

Do you feel better now? Besides, where in any Dead Sea Scroll is Jesus mentioned? None.

Answer 8

What is the question?

So you're willing to accept any proof that you like and dismiss any other proofs. So much for logic! I don't think you should be the one calling others ignorant.

Answer 9

Try again. Jesus quoted the Scriptures. My Lord was an Old Testament Jew teaching in the synogogue.

Answer 10

IS there any other kind?

That's still nearly 400 years after your supposed savior lived and died.

Should we take YOUR word on what George Washington was like as a person?