I am not the the most upstanding Christian and I know that I have many flaws as a believer, but it hurts me to hear other "so called" Christians say: "God was with me" and "God Bless Us" when violence is used against another! Wasn't Jesus the ultimate Pacifist? Did he not say: "turn the other cheek" and "Bless them that persecute you"? I can't understand this perverted concept of Christianity that permits a security guard to carry a firearm inside a place of worship. What is a Church? Is it a War-zone now? I always believed it was a place of refuge. Where is the Sanctuary then? This security guards statement of "I had God" is NO faith or real belief in God's power - her shakiness in the news conference is a testament to that. If you are a true Christian then you have no need to arm yourself and no fear- God ALONE will be your fortress and protector...and if it be His will that your life ends abruptly, your reward will be far greater. Where better to die, than in the House of the Lord.
2007-12-10 17:32:34 · 16 answers · asked by Anonymous in Society & Culture ➔ Religion & Spirituality
Hmmm...Nice Try Non-Apologetic Apologis, did you ever get down to verse 51 of Luke 22? What happened after that Sword cut-off that high priest ear? Yup, Jesus healed it ! Weird huh? I don't remember Jesus ever picking up a sword?
2007-12-10 17:56:14 · update #1
Just to add: This concept of the God of the Old testament is the same God of the New Testament is not completely true. Jesus is the "New testament" in sacrificing his life for us sinners. This is the ultimate example of Humanity! Would you be able to sacrifice your life for that gunman who killed 5 people in a church? That is what Jesus did for us!... It is his testimony to us!
2007-12-10 18:05:53 · update #2
I respect your opinion soulinve.. and God bless, but I respectfully disagree about certain quoted passages where Jesus speaks more to the spiritual warfare rather than the physical threat. Matthew 26:41 "the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak". It is not the spirit that pulls a trigger. You have to fight against physical reactions.
Also, when Jesus raided the temple he was no different than an Anarcho-Communist Protester at a WTO rally, he was angry that his "Fathers House" was being used to make money and not for worship --and I'm sure he would destroy a thousand churches today for that exact same reason.
2007-12-10 18:23:07 · update #3
Sorry to hear about your trauma at Dawson College (Moddy), but I never said that a person would go to hell for killing someone in self-defence. I am not Heaven's Gate-Keeper. I was only stating my belief in a Non-Violent & Pacifist lifestyle. My original argument was "Why is there an armed security guard in a Church?" So I figure now every Church in America will need a substitute 'Hero Security Guard' with a loaded Glock instead of Jesus. Good Luck...and God bless,
Sincerely,
My Last Word
2007-12-10 18:43:12 · update #4
Luke 19:27 Jesus said, "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."
It's interesting that the security guard (and probably others there) weren't willing to die for their faith.
2007-12-10 17:51:07 · answer #1 · answered by gelfling 7 · 0⤊ 0⤋
Wasn't Jesus the ultimate Pacifist? Did he not say: "turn the other cheek" and "Bless them that persecute you"?
No, actually he wasn't. He said so himself.
"Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword."
-Matthew 10:34
"I came to cast fire on the earth, and would that it were already kindled! I have a baptism to be baptized with, and how great is my distress until it is accomplished! Do you think I have come to give peace on earth? No, I tell you, but rather division."
-Luke 12:49-51
He also demonstrated this with his actions. When he saw that the Pharisees were desecrating the temple, what did he do, organize a sit-in? No!
"And Jesus entered the temple and drove out all who sold and bought in the temple, and he overturned the tables of those money-changers and the seats of those who sold pigeons."
~Matthew 21:12
"The passover of the Jews was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. In the temple he found those who were selling oxen and sheep and pigeons, and the money-changers sitting there. And making a whip of cords, he drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and oxen. And he poured out the coins of the money-changers and overturned their tables."
~ John 3:3
It is true Jesus taught that we should love our enemies. He did not teach us we should love evil. He did not teach us to be lame.
"If you are a true Christian then you have no need to arm yourself and no fear."
Though it is true we don't need to fear death, that does not mean we have to sit idly by and watch it happen.
In Love,
~ S
2007-12-10 17:58:55 · answer #2 · answered by soulinverse 4 · 1⤊ 0⤋
Jesus also said, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." (Luke 22:36).
Jesus was not a pacifist. Jesus never preached against self-defense.
C'mon - even a quick read of the Bible will tell you that the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob was not against violence when used properly.
Response: Yes - Jesus did heal the guard's ear. But that does not mean Jesus endorsed pacificsm. Jesus' mission at the time was to die on the cross - not to start a rebellion. Just because Jesus did not pick up a sword himself, and in specific instances said that in that situation it was not appropriate, does not mean that Jesus was completely against violence. Please show one verse, other than Jesus' self-sacrifice (the entire reason he came to the Earth), when Jesus said you should not take up arms in defense of another's life.
2007-12-10 17:39:46 · answer #3 · answered by The Non-Apologetic Apologist 3 · 3⤊ 1⤋
But that does mean Christian's must lie down to be slaughtered? Yes, Jesus was a pacifist, but our God also lead His Children to war. God in the old testament and new testament is one and the same...
Yes, as Christians are suppose to turn the other cheek, forgive and what not, but it does not mean being Christian, we are to be trodden on.
As in the spirit, you fight with the devil, while we are in the natural realm, we must fight in the natural... but always with God are our guide...
2007-12-10 17:44:02 · answer #4 · answered by freaky 3 · 3⤊ 1⤋
I find it odd that not only do they have security guards, but also guards with guns? What the heck? Not even guards at the mall or schools carry guns. Oh and I totally misread it. I thought the guard said, "I hate God".
2007-12-10 17:40:57 · answer #5 · answered by Anonymous · 3⤊ 0⤋
Was it God's will that the shooter killed those church-goers?
Was it God's will that the guard killed the shooter?
Why does God play hide-and-seek when innocent people are getting mowed down?
2007-12-11 02:01:08 · answer #6 · answered by Anonymous · 0⤊ 0⤋
If you're going to commit libel, at least use a gag that's not older than Noah.
2016-05-22 23:50:03 · answer #7 · answered by ? 3 · 0⤊ 0⤋
John 18:36.........Jesus answered , My kingdom is not of this world, if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews, but now is my kingdom no from hence.
2007-12-10 19:39:06 · answer #8 · answered by repent 4 · 0⤊ 0⤋
"where better to die than in the house of our lord" First off that's kinda stupid, and second why would the gods give us a survival instinct if we weren't meant to use it? Oh yeah, bless those that try to butcher us, you're real smart there buddy!
2007-12-10 17:44:49 · answer #9 · answered by runic111 5 · 1⤊ 1⤋
I think it was a good thing that the lady shot him, and I'm an atheist.
I do find it ridiculous that she said that this god was with her though, as if she couldn't hit the broad side of a barn without divine help.
2007-12-10 17:36:51 · answer #10 · answered by Anonymous · 4⤊ 1⤋