Back in the days when jets were still dogfighting, why didn't they develop a missile that fired backwards?

Question

Say, 1 extra missile to equip the F4 Phantom with, in case of an emergency situation?

Like if there's a mig on your tail.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=l2Fz3N-mprQ

Good point, Gunny C.

They would need a different kind of guidance system. Ok. Well that's the end of that thought.

Oh, when I said dogfighting, I meant both pilots fighting like hell to get behind eachother. You know, negative g maneuvers and things like that.

Answer 1

Wishful thinking on the part of both sides, perhaps?

Dogfighting is hardly dead, modern missiles are still limited by practical considerations. IR seekers only work with a direct line of sight. Since the power and resolution of a radar is strongly dependent on the size of it's antenna, It's hard to make a radar with enough power and resolution to track a target at long distances, yet small enough to fit on a missile. (this may change in the future...)

Modern dogfighting tactics still dictate something of a "whites of his eyes" approach in order to maximize chances of your missile getting to it's target. The AIM9 Sidewinder has a range of about 11 miles, as the crow flies, but that depends on the speed and direction of both you and your enemy. Assuming that a "Bandit on your six" was closing on you, that would still give you time to pull an "Immleman", or somesuch maneuver, and stuff one up his nose. (If he didn't try to break and evade.) He would have to get a lot closer to you to fire from nose to tail; because of the relative airspeed you, him, and the missile would cover a lot of ground before the missile actually hit. Or you could both try playing "chicken...."

As Dennis points out, a backwards fired missile would use up a great deal of fuel and altitude, just overcoming the forward momentum of the launching aircraft. If the enemy aircraft were to take evasive action, this might put the missile at an "energy disadvantage", compared with the target. I.e. If he were close enough to fire a missile, his might have a much better chance of hitting you than your backwards one, though that's debatable.

Also, most missiles are quite capable of following targets through more than 360 degrees once they are launched, and are more maneuverable than big, hulking jets. Though again, heavy maneuvers may give a bandit an advantage in terms of speed and inertia if the missile is launched at longer range.

As you can tell, the closer you can get to a bandit, the better your collective chances.... The idea is to jockey and shimmy for position out of range of missiles, until one of you gets the upper hand and can close in. Teamwork can make all the difference here; for example one wingman can bait the enemy, while another one comes around and "lights him up."

Hope all this rambling makes any sense to you,
~WOMBAT Claws

Answer 2

Jets still do "dogfight"- the ranges are simply at 200 to 300 miles instead of "point blank".

If you've got an F4, and its going up against a MiG 21- the problem is, it'd have to not only look backwards, but it'd also have to get a lock of some kind. RADAR is too easy to break lock, IR's only work from the rear.

Now, if you've got a RADAR system in the aircraft that could look backwards, it'd be almost certain death- it'd be too easy for an enemy missle to lock on to the RADAR's source and destroy the aircraft

Answer 3

The idea of a rear firing missile is still alive, in Russia. They have an active radar in the tail of the Su37 and also the Su34 bomber.
Speculation has it that the aircraft could fire active radar missiles to the rear.
There are problems though, the missile would have to use most of its fuel to stop its forward momentum and reverse direction.
Contrary to what has been stated here at least some modern IR missiles ie late model Sidewinders have no problem locking from the front. It would be very hard to get a Sidewinder to ignore the launch aircrafts trail though.

Answer 4

Why would you fire a missile backwards?

An IR homing missile will just lock on to your own jet exhaust.
A radar guided missile may lock on to the rear of your own aircraft, unless the radar was placed on the tail plane (rather bulky and would mess up flight maneuverability). Why shoot yourself down?

Answer 5

Simplest reason is the dogfighting missiles(short range) at the time were heat seekers (Sidewinder) and the heat signature head on is not a good one so the odds of it locking on would be minimal. You would be firing a huge heat signature (your exhaust) and trying to lock on a poor one his nose. Why you tried to get on the tail where the heat signature is the highest and it can lock better.

Answer 6

Missles need a radar lock to track a target. The radar in fighter planes is in the nose cone, projecting in a cone shape in the front of the plane. Though there is some radar for 360 coverage, the detail needed for a missle requires a strong and sophisticated rader. There is no coverage in the back. In addition, there needs to be space between the planes for the missle to be effective (room to maneuver to the enemy place, not too close as to be a threat to the firing plane), so in many cases in a dog fight, missles aren't all the effective, especially firing blind behind you.

Answer 7

Targeting Radar would eventually kill the pilot, unless you placed an additional radar emitter/receiver in the rear of the plane, Making the aircraft even more expensive.

Answer 8

Wow good Idea.

You are a great guy to have around decades after there is a problem!

I have no Idea, it sounds good to me, I'm sure there is a rocket surgeon on here who will tell us why it won't work.

Answer 9

All of the above, especially Wombat's summary. I'd just add that this was featured in the Clint Eastwood film, "Firefox".

Answer 10

They haven't stopped dogfighting.


Nice idea, however!