Who ever said "religion" set the moral standard?

Question

Personally, I find it quite irritating that people believe you have to be a "christian" or of some religious affiliation to have morals. I have noticed in my Theory of Knowledge class that no matter WHAT we talk about, RELIGION is always at least ONE person's argument. I find myself annoyed and ticked off with such logic as it does not seem logical to me at all. I am an agnostic who honestly couldn't care less about religion. I get frustrated with people telling me "you need to see the light" or "you need to be touched by Jesus." I don't believe in this "light" and "Jesus" hasn't touched me for quite some time. I am a person of high morals. I know very many atheists who are VERY good people who have not done "un-Christian-like" things ever in their lives. I stopped being afraid of hell because I don't believe in hell. I can still do the right thing and not believe in religion, period. I'm curious to know why religion is the reason for everything and why it's shoved in people's faces.

In response to Michael R.
Did I ever tell you I was perfect? You avoided the question entirely by pointing out me in general and not focusing on the more broad concept of what I was asking. I know I have made mistakes and just because I've done so doesn't mean I didn't learn from them. I've had people tell me "it was God telling you it was wrong." NO. Not really. It was simply me saying "hmm. that wasn't cool." Caring for a brief moment, moving on with my life, and not making the same mistake again. I do not lie, I do not drink, I do not smoke, I do not engage in any sexual activity whatsoever, I do not do drugs, I do not partake in things that are life threatening blah blah blah. According to the Bible, isn't it good that I don't do that???? According to Christians, isn't that what I'm supposed to do??! Morals, in general, in my opinion, are one's own views of right and wrong. Some things, however, are naturally right and naturally wrong. I don't need a book or priest to tell me so.

I guess I should also add that for years and years and years I was a strong believer. Very, very strong. I got to the point though, when out of nowhere and I mean literally out of nowhere, I felt nothing anymore. When I went to church, I used to feel chills up and down my spine everytime we read verses and sang hymns. Then one day I went and I literally felt NOTHING. I didn't want to be there, I was questioning my beliefs INSIDE the church. I asked my preacher "what in the world is god anyway." Everybody was astonished and I was very serious. Nobody was able to produce an answer better than the story of the burning bush and him saying "I am." It wasn't good enough for me and to this day isn't.
Greengo: I would have never in any shape or form seen the hollocaust as justifiable in any way. It was the worst act of cruelty I've ever read about in my life. I am not a heartless person. I am not the "typical agnostic" one may say. I love life and the people and things in my life.

Answer 1

Way back in ancient times
Religion and Politics were the same.

It wasn't until modern times that Thomas Jefferson drafted the First Amendment of the United States Constitution and James Madison drafted the United States Bill of Rights. "Strongly guarded . . . is the separation between religion and government in the Constitution of the United States," Madison wrote, and he declared, "practical distinction between Religion and Civil Government is essential to the purity of both, and as guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States."

Religions do have power over the behaviour of people within their respective communities, which is effectively what elected political leaders have over their constitutents.

At present, in countries where church and state are legally separate, religions use the media (many of which are owned by their followers--about 90 percent of the radio stations in the US are owned by religious conservatives, for example) as propaganda mechanisms to preach their message in the form of news and public affairs programs.

Those who believe that religions should be able to influence politics should be reminded that no country that has an official political affiliation today has much strength in the international economy. Most are poorly managed and poverty abounds. Western countries only surged ahead economically in the past half millennium once the church's influence over the politics of the state was separated at the end of the Middle Ages.

History says that when religion and politics are bedfellows, poverty results and corruption is a common consequence.

Answer 2

How do you know that you have "very high morals?" I am serious. Think about it. Where did your morals come from, and how do you know they are "high" morals?
Everyone has a belief system. I would call that belief system a "religion." Be it atheism, agnosticism, theism, or other, our beliefs provide the frame of reference for our ethics. (what you call morals)
Atheists believe that ethics are self-determined, and relative to the values of the society around us. Therefore, if you lived in Nazi Germany, and believed that Jews were inferior, you would have "high" morals if you supported the holocaust. That is the problem with the relativistic ethical construct. There is no absolute right or wrong. Killing could be moral, or even laudatory if your "morals" mandated it to be so.
Theists believe that ethics are determined by a higher power, and as such are permanently fixed in stone. Breaking these commands, such as "thou shalt not kill," is wrong because some entity higher than myself said so and I can never change that to suit my own personal belief system.
Soooooooooooooooo that is the difference. I am sure you are just beginning your foray into the wide world of philosopy, and you are still struggling just to understand your own worldview. Epistemology is a good step in the right direction, but you should open your mind a bit to take it all in.

Answer 3

What have liberals and atheists to do with each other? Why are you mixing politics and religion? From the first post it was obvious the 2nd Mahal was a clone. Did this clone tell you personally he/she is an atheist? If not, how do you know or is it an assumption? Being an atheist does mean that you are free to behave how you want, BUT you must be able and willing to take the consequences of your actions, take responsibility for your behaviour. Being an atheist is actually the ultimate responsibility, its all your own with no devil or god to blame or ask for anything. And no, fairness, honesty and transparency have nothing at all to do with the ability to reason. You can still reason from an unfair and dishonest viewpoint. "Penster_x" said it better than I can. He summed it up perfectly...

Answer 4

Religious leaders are the ones who said that. So many religions out there take this simple-minded approach to the Bible, because they have been brainwashed early on by religious and political leaders with their own agendas that it can only have one meaning, usually one that suited above-mentioned agendas.

I am a very spiritual person but never a religious one. I read the Bible myself, do not attend church, and do not turn to any man for God--I seek God myself directly. Structured religion may have at one time or another been good, but in these days and times it is a load of crap.

If you were to ask me what was "Christian-like", my list would be full of judgmental immoral sinful things because that is all that is taught in these so-called churches of Christ. Jesus does not believe we should judge our fellow man, be hateful towards others of any race, sexual orientation, or belief which does not match our own, he doesn't condone that we beat our children or demean and suppress our women...yet this is what they teach. And no one can tell me that they don't--I was raised with the junk for 15 years and in my search for Christianity I have never once found any denomination that didn't support at least one of these un-Christ-like evil views.

Would I say that you are immoral because you don't have religion? Absolutely not--I would say it if you did!

Answer 5

Religion is a form of slavery.... only religions preach they are the moral standard and without them the world would fall apart... the world wasn't falling apart when they would enter a new civilization and condemn the people of that society as heathens.... or slaughter them on account they would not practice their religious beleifs... or burn people at the stake for opposing the church.... good and evil were defined by the church and the word sin used to condemn natural behavior... for a person is born of nature and the church saw that if it condemn what we are born to be they would always have a case of condemning us.... I've heard christians preach that we are weak to give into our natures... however through our natures a natural conscience evolved and with that conscience the understanding of right and wrong... through this we put in place laws that forbid, slavery, that forbid racism, that gave equal rights to women.. that gives rights to children... all the things that laws put in place by the churches took away.... also through the laws of human conscience did we forbid murder by religions against those who would not obey or practice these religions.... when it comes to morality religions get a certain F for all good things of justice and peace come from the natural human conscience that evolved through time and experience of the human life....

Answer 6

Well, I think religion and a belief in God can be useful to morality, but I feel that reason (I'm not going into formal logic here) is a better guide. Look at Socrates. Dante even placed him in a "hell-less hell" and Socrates used his gift of reason to improve his city-state of Athens and his fellow man. He felt that doing that was part of a commandment that the god Apollo had given him. So, religion can be useful, but reason is our sure guiding light which produces moral results.

Answer 7

Morality has to have a foundation; a moral authority to whom we have an obligation or duty. If it is just our own feelings that form our moral foundation, what obligation do we owe feelings? None that I know of. Without a moral authority higher than ourselves, we'll just do what we feel like doing and justify our behavior using our considerable human capacity for self deception. We make the rules and judge our own performance - only fools could lose that game.

Some people love to say that they are very moral without God. It makes them feel good to say that. It boosts their self ego. It is an example of a moral foundation based upon feelings.

It sounds like your experience with religion is also based upon feelings.

Answer 8

cause either they want to manipulate people or they need to find some way of making a lot of money. just look at those people with expensive cars who are supposed to be all "holy" and whatnot.

now as far as why people think that atheists or agnostics have no morals. if its cause of their experiences here on R&S then its quite understandable cause many of us tend to be real @$$#0L3$ on here. but in real life its a different story though.

but like you said, you dont need to be religious to have high morals. infact being religious doesnt mean youre more moral because you could confuse things or use them to your own benefit and try to be moral.

like when the colonists came here and pretended that the slaves werent human or were animals. they knew that treating a human like that was immoral so they used that crappy excuse that they're "subhuman" to treat them like crap.

Answer 9

Religion doesnt set the standard, God does. There are good people that go to Hell because they refused God's gift. They didnt steal or lie or murder, but they refused to admit themselves a sinner and trust in Jesus. Can I prove to you Hell exists? no. Does that mean it doesnt exist? no. There are some people who call themselves Christians and are not so, there are false prophets who call themselves preachers. We are thrown so many theories and lies, it is so easy to get confused. I know, Im only 19, but until this year, I had despised Christianity and even Christians themselves. I used the 'they are hypocrites' excuse and 'How can I believe a God exists when the world is so evil' excuse. Name an excuse, I probably used it. It took my world crashing down to have me turn to Jesus. I hope it doesnt take you the same.

Answer 10

indeed. the evidence points in the opposite direction.

To wit:

We know that the Blue states didn't go for Bush and that there is a pretty firm correlation between Red states being more religious and Blue states being less so. What are the top 15 states for high rates of teen pregnancy? All Red. Of the 16 lowest rates, all but three were Blue states (including the bottom 6):
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/12/6/...
Furthermore, the rate of teen pregnancies in the U.S. is twice as high as any other industrialized nation:
http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_teens....
The above study concluded "U.S. teenagers have higher STD rates than teenagers in other developed countries—for example, England, Canada, France and Sweden—because they have more sexual partners and probably lower levels of condom use." Sweden had the lowest rates of both teen pregnancies and STDs.
Now, cross-reference that to the fact that the U.S. is the most religious industrialized nation and Sweden among the least: http://www.umich.edu/~urecord/0304/Nov24...