Homeschool Critics: Is this the type of society you want?

Question

You argue constantly that homeschool students are not getting the socialization they need.

First a definition from the Miriam Webster Medical Dictionary of the word "socialization."

"the process by which a human being beginning at infancy acquires the habits, beliefs, and accumulated knowledge of society through education and training for adult status"

Habits instilled through public school:

- Obsession with pop culture
- Government dependency
- Blind acceptance of authority
- Intolerance of those who do not conform
- etc.

Beliefs instilled through public school:
- Moral relativism
- Anti-intellect / anti-academic attitudes
- Promiscuity (even as young or younger than age 12) is OK
- Being the victim of bullies is necessary for growth
- Violence is a fact of life
- Active children (mostly boys) must be subdued
- etc.

Knowledge gained through public school:
- Empirical evidence is clear that public schools are not educating children as well as in previous generations.

** This question is intended for those who use the "but what about socialization" argument against homeschooling.

It is not intended as a slam against those who choose public education - regardless of how a child is educated, I believe the deciding difference is parental involvement.

The "cool aid" comment. You've made my point perfectly.

What happens when a homeschool child becomes an adult... how will they deal with these things that are accepted and acceptable as a reality?

I am an adult and I question authority, I believe in individual responsibility, I am not bullied, I am not obsessed with the latest on OJ or Brittney or Lindsey, I don't depend on the government... Saying that one must accept these things as the only reality also helps make my point.

I find it interesting that not one homeschool critic has bothered to answer the question.

EbMid2: I have invited those who disagree to clarify their position. So far, no one has actually addressed the question.

Here is a summary of the answers so far:

Ad hominem attacks: 2

Accept it as the way it is and has to be: 5

Restating the socialization criticism as an answer to the question: 4

Addressed the question: 0

Note: these add up to more than the number of questions because many fell into more than one category.

MathewD: Not angry. Irritated maybe by the daily or more frequent unfounded accusations that homeschooled children are not "socialized."

And, in the context of public school socialization, if you read the published papers by those who have influenced, from early on, the public school system, the definition is accurate.

It was genuinely not meant to be a criticism of parents who choose public school.

Spend some time in Primary & Secondary Education or in Teaching sections of YA. You do not find homeschoolers in those sections bashing public school students or teachers.

The point of the question was to generate discussion and I was truly hoping that someone who believes that homeschoolers are "unsocialized" would provide a rational response. Oh well.

The closest to an answer has been: "My school is not like that" but even that answer subtly circles around to "a child needs to be exposed to this stuff."

Refugio: I am the product of public schools and a couple of top colleges.

I did not come up with that list on my own: It came from answers to a YA question in Teacher section, news reports and books.

The point of the question was that schools model society for our kids and mold kids to fit into said society: Do you want our society to reflect the culture present in many public schools - regardless of my list perhaps being "overly harsh?"

The question was intended for those that frequently criticize homeschooling here on YA.

Answer 1

I'm not a homeschool critic, yet I just have such a strong desire to respond to what has been said!

"All 3 kids in my family went to PS and we turned out great, we volunteer, raised good families, etc.
"Protecting" your child in an artificial bubble is not the answer."

You know, my grandmother smoked for over 60 years and was fine. And most people eat junk food regularly and probably turn out fine. That doesn't mean that it's actually okay for us all to eat junk food.

I, too, turned out fine after public school. But I had to stick out like a sore thumb in many ways to turn out fine. And I still have some little issues that are a direct result of the attitude against intellect that was present.


"All of those habits exist everywhere"

I disagree--or at the very least disagree to the degree that those habits exist in different environments. Children learn what they live. When surrounded by 30 other kids just as immature, they will learn those immature behaviours far more than if they were in a more natural setting. Obsessions with pop culture are everywhere? How about the adult obsessions we see now are only the result of having grown up in a social setting that had pop culture as a focus? The bulk of homeschooled kids I know do not have an obsessions of pop culture.


" don't think those habits are instilled by the school systems, rather they are a product of parents not taking enough initiative in their children's lives."

Yes and no. It's very hard to not learn all those habits when you are inundated with them every day for 12/13 years.


"Shielding your child from those situations and beliefs isn't helping either. When they get out into society as adults with all those people who were educated in public schools, with all those bad habits, what will happen?"

First of all, this person makes the faulty assumption that homeschooled kids aren't in society, that they don't have exposure. Homeschooled kids do get the exposure. They just don't live it 7 hours a day like schooled kids do. Imagine yourself working in an environment where people swore all the time. 7 hours a day, 180 days a year. You are VERY likely to start swearing, without even thinking about it, because that's what you live most of the time.



" will your child be prepared to handle those situations? If your answer is to educate them that these habits and beliefs are wrong, then my answer would be that the same education could be given while your child is attending public schools, and they will learn first-hand."

As I've said, living these things day in and day out is VERY hard to counteract. Expecting 6, 7, 8yo's to do so is ridiculous--they aren't even developmentally able to really rationalize properly. Not up until 12-13, to be honest, which is why that's an age where rebellion often sets in: because they are able to start really questioning and thinking.


"And, more importantly, you fail to realize that the majority of individuals -will- be raised in public schools. This means that, no matter what flaws the social environment has (and they are legion) a child must learn to deal in such an environment in order to be a succesful adult. We may wish it otherwise ( I certainly do) but removing the child into a hermetically sealed cultural bubble is not the answer."

This is almost a complacent attitude: If we can't beat them, join them? (Which is totally beside the point that this person thinks my kids are growing up in a little bubble.) I'm not happy with just allowing society to flow along as it will and insist we all just go with the flow. Somebody has to take a stand for what is right. Does it mean difficulties later on for our kids? Maybe. But they'll have the backbone to stand up for themselves and will actually try to be the change we'd all like to see in this world.

And maybe that's the real problem with some of the naysayers. They think we are protecting our kids by homeschooling them, when their own words belie them and show that they are protecting their kids from being better, being different, by having them grow up in a system these naysayers feel will show them best the way things are. Kind of like Brave New World, with everybody just going with the flow and the one (Bernard) who's having the hard time is the one who's actually doing the right thing. I don't know about others, but I'd prefer to be Bernard, and prefer my children to be the Bernards, than to just be followers of what exists. WE create society. WE can make a change. The very common complacent attitude shows that people think society surrounds us and we have to conform. What changes we could make if EVERYBODY realized they were creating and maintaning the present society as a result of their decisions and actions.

Answer 2

I do homeschooling but its all online. And all of my teachers are certified. There are real teachers. I can call them or email them its my choice. Its all based on the persons personality. Don't let what people say get to you. I went to public school from Preschool - Freshman year. Now I do the online school. And I prefer it. All my friends laugh at me and call me crazy because I wanted to try it. But I still get interaction with people all the time! I will chat away about nothing for hours on end. So I will do good later on. Because I will have good social skills, All I have to say is. SCREW THOSE IDIOTIC PEOPLE WHO THINK I WON'T HAVE A GOOD CHANCE. =) Also my mom and dad didn't even want me to do the homeschooling thing I wanted to! They both work too. So they don't really do my school only if I have a question like if it was homework!

Answer 3

Why does everyone buy into the garbage rhetoric of paranoid Teacher's Union spokespeople and paranoid School Board spokespeople.

Those are the only people spitting the socialization rhetoric, along with the mo-cows that belive in them

Let's separate the wheat from the chaf

College is taught by people with have a BA/BS plus post grad studies or an MA/MS or a PH D

College teachers design their own syllubus and pick their own text book

Some college teachers use their own text book written by them!

My cousin was one. He did everything except his dissertation for a Math PH D. He wrote his own book on The Slide Rule. He was a full professor.

Primary and Secondary schools are taught by people with mosts BA and BS degrees and 6-12 units of special teaching courses.

They MUST follow the state issued syllubus and MUST use the assigned text book.

They have a TEACHER"S edition with the ansers and the question prompts.

There job is to take role and teach the course as the STATE says it must be taught.

School text books are written by University Professors with PH Ds

Parents have to decide if their kids are in school to LEARN or to kiss the girls and score drugs and find out who is having a beer bong party on friday.

Homeschool parents supervise their kids and make sure they do the work.

All one has to do is look here on any given day to see some paranoid homeschooler begging for Penn Foster test answers!

Obviously homeschool is no easier than brick school.

Homeschoolers, by the way, are on a separate tier from brick schoolers for admission to Ivy League schools.

Each Ivy League school picks 1-3 publich schoolers from each state each year and 1 home schooler for each state, each year.

Seeing as how only 8% of the US homeschools your chances of getting into an Ivy are easier with homeschooling than brick schooling.

Answer 4

Some kids get everything they need from homeschooling, but some don't. I am a homeschooler that has been to public school and has been home schooled and it has been better for me than public school. I have experienced everything in homeschooling as in public school. With some kids this is not the case. Some kids want the public school environment, they want to be around their friends for long periods of time which is just not possible in homeschooling. My finial word, as a homeschooler and a public schooler, is that people should not have a problem with ether one. So critics leave us be.

I feel disgust that some people HATE homeschooling. Getting rid of homeschooling is like taking away our rights as American citizens. We have a right to be taught as we want it.
Also through homeschooling that it is humanity' nature to be scared of change. Adults, kids being homeshooled is not going to effect you so, there is no reason for there to be critics.

The reason it seems like this was written by a ten year old it is because it was.

Being homeschooled is not like being withheld from the world. I understand modern culture as much as anyone else.
I am smarter than a fifth grader.
I am only ten years old and am capable of reading and understanding adults books.
WAR AND PEACE ROCKS!!!!!!

Answer 5

I am not exactly a critic of the home schooling route...after all I was home schooled. While I was being home schooled I did have other activities around other kids my age either through the home schooling club or through local organizations that had classes for different sports...I liked doing the sports but I really didn't feel that I had gotten my fill of being 'socialized' I wasn't around kids as much as I wanted to be. My parents were always quick to point out that the kids who went to public school loved it there and encouraged me to form my own viewpoint by asking them about it. The kids I asked almost always said they went there not to learn but to socialize...which to my mind defeated the purpose of 'school' which is almost always termed 'an institute of learning'
I also found that when I pressured the kids about learning in school they said they barely paid attention in class...this even came from a girl whose mother was a school teacher!

Those who oppose home schooling must look at this fact too...more and more pro-athletes for sports that are not played in high-school (gymnastics comes to my mind) are home schooled and more coaches prefer home schooled children to public school children.

The same goes for colleges. They prefer home schooled children to public school children because they don't feel like re-educating the public school kids.

So as much as I disliked the social aspect of it I actually liked being home schooled. I learned a lot more and I got higher in the sports I was competing at the time.

Answer 6

I understand your point of view. My parents are homeschooling all of their children...Me my sisters and brother are all homeschooled. And in my personal opinion it sucks, Im bored, Im restless, I wish that I had more people that I could talk to. I do believe that homeschooling is important b/c without homeschooling you probably would not be able to help your kids grow in there education and help them realize themselves as a person, however I believe that at a certain age children should be able to go to a public school, depending on the school district. For one my parents hate our school district they thing that it does not help the students and its proven as one of the worst in the US. So I understand completly. But I also know as a teen who is being homeschooled it is very hard.

I am not a parent so I dont know what my parents worry about all the time but some of their reasoning on why I cant go to a public school is so prejiduce and hypocrytical.

Answer 7

Homeschooling isolation can be really bad for some kids. Matthew Murray is a good example.

By the way, you should not complain about others' criticisms when you use such lists of habits and beliefs "instilled through public school". If that is the logic you learned at home, good luck in life.

Answer 8

Ah, yes. The haters: They really know nothing about HS and they want to keep it that way. One hater who insisted that a child must learn to accept bullying as a part of life and was against HSers "sheltering" their children has gone on to write me several emails detailing her own bullying and abuse and how they have negatively affected her. She is apparently the walking wounded and thinks that is bad, but thinks it is worse to prevent this from happening to others. (The mind, she boggles!) She maintains her position. Then, when I pointed out the obvious inconsistencies in her reasoning, she went on to tell me I was attacking her, had a fit and shuffled off in a huff. Allcaps were used in a most threatening manner. *sarcasm* She seemed to have forgotten that she asked to be emailed with details about why I gave her answer a thumbs down. What is fantastic to me is how well she demonstrated the very public school mentality and behaviors I do not want my child to learn as normal or mature.

Reading between the lines; I keep seeing the haters as insisting that nothing is wrong with the system they were raised in, because if there were something wrong with that system, something might be wrong with them. Thus, we HSers and our children must be weak, stupid and in everyway inferior to them. I wonder where they learned to make such snap judgments without getting all the information first. Where did they learn to fear nonconformity? Could it be that they learned this in the schools they attended? What's more is in many of their opinions, for our own good, we should be halted at once. We should conform to their standards; accept the flaws as though they were some backhanded gift. They seem to say, "The flaws exist to create overcomers, like me." They want to be sure we know that they are fine. They don’t understand why we as parents do not want our children to grow up to be exactly like them. They are threatened. If we have found a better lifestyle and means of education, then their way may be inferior. (No, we don’t think that way. But they seem to.) This scares them because they have been taught that life is about competition, not individual excellence. In psychology this is called Projection. It is basically attributing to others the aspect of yourself that you find too repugnant to examine.

Do you read Kurt Vonnegut?
Follow this link. I think you'll like it.
Before anyone bashes the story, you should be reminded that a little girl was suspended for doing gymnastics in her schoolyard. The reason given was that other less able bodied children might feel bad or be hurt attempting to do cartwheels etc. What a world.

MattD: Why do you assume that our children would not be introduced to people from different backgrounds? Show me some studies to support you theory. My child is homeschooled to expose her to the real world, not to keep it from her. My local public schools ban books. I do not. What makes you think that they need to be bullied to learn about the existence of bullies? My child knows alot about sharks. I don't make her swim with them.

Answer 9

As a parent with children in a good public school system, I have seen none of the tings you describe as "beliefs." In fact the school makes a point to teach students respect, to question, and to be good students (academic attitude). Finally students in our district are taught to only to be tolerant, but to be accepting of peoples differences.
I have met a number of home school children, some are great, some are not. It depends on the qualifications of the parent teaching.
I do believe that "socialization" and their is more than a single definition, by the way, doesn't mean surrounding your children with like-minded children. To work in our world, good or bad, we must learn to work with different people. Children must learn that, yes their are bullies, and yes you are better than them. They need to learn that not everyone holds not only their beliefs, but their parents beliefs as well. This is a critical component of socialization that you do not address in your statements.
Your question seems very angry and I do not know why. If you are happy with home-schooling and your child(ren) are receiving a quality education from you than why are you bothered by criticisms of others, is that not part of acceptance and tolerance? I do not attack your choice simply because I may disagree with it, yet you attack my choice of public schools based on a number of negative stereotypes that do not apply in every school district in the country.

Answer 10

Glad to see things never change... I took a 6 month hiatus from Y!A and I see that Homeschool critics still have not been swayed and the socialization argument is still there. :) Ahhhh..... bliss! :) I was public schooled and it was that bad. Everything you mentioned happened en masse. People who slam hs'ing "because of socialization" will always do so. They were brought up to believe in the status quo. Anything not in the Status Quo is wrong. I learned about life from college, not my B&M PS. As did everyone I associate with now. I don't see a soul I went to high school with. All my friends (save one) I met in college or later.