Why are the icecaps growing on both poles??

Question

With all this talk of global warming, you'd think they'd be shrinking.

http://icecap.us/index.php/go/joes-blog/southern_hemisphere_ice_cover_remains_well_above_normal

Trevor, you are wallowing in your ignorance. The graph represents SEA ICE, not land supported glaciers. When sea ice melts, it has no effect on sea levels.
The apparent size of Antarctica doubles (or halves) as the seasons change.
Maybe you are not ready for scientific discussions. I'll assume you are in grade school and try to encourage you. Keep after it, young man.

Answer 1

Don't ask questions! you risk being talked down to by the GW scientific elitists.

Answer 2

First you have to define what you mean by growing.

1. The icecaps may be covering a larger area. That's one type of growth and it would show up quickly in aerial photos. But that growth fails to register the volume of ice/water contained in the glacier. Studies of valley glaciers in Alaska and the Yukon found that glacial movement was largely a process of the ice caps surging forward 10 to 200 yards or meters, but with a resulting 'thining' of the ice in the glacier. The forward movement wasn't from a build up in volume, it was related to the thickness of the glacier and the resistence of the surface beneath the glacier.

While the glacier looked bigger, i.e., longer, there was no additional water locked in the ice. In one sense, no net gain.

2. The ice caps could be covering the same area or a larger area, but with increased thickness. If this is the case, then there is more precipitation falling. But does that imply warmer or colder weather?

For those people living in the latitudes that experience changes from a warm season to a cold season, there is always the saying that "it's too cold to snow". While that has been 'scientifically proven" (for those who accept science), to be false, there is some reality. The likelihood of snow is greatest at temperatures near freezing. Water vapor is still available in the air, but it's cold enough to condense.

Siple Station in the Antarctic recevies over 300" (7.6 m) of snow a year, yet it's percipitation is less than 5" (13 cm) a year. It all blows in from other parts of the continent.

So you're question is not complete to justify a decision related to global warming.

a. The ice cap could be growing as the temperatures warm, producing more water vapor off the ocean, which then condenses as snow over the Antarctic.

b. There could be no global cooling or warming, the glaciers simply have thinned and spread outwardly.

c. The planet could be cooling and more water is being locked up as ice for what little water continues to condense over the continent.

In the words of Robby the Robot, It does not compute.

Answer 3

I had a look at the website, I'm not sure what it relates to but it's certainly not something that's happening here on Earth. It appears to be claiming that southern hemisphere sea ice retreated to just 2 million square km in March and expanded to 16 million square km in October.

Somehow I missed the worldwide flood of Biblical proportions that must have happened earlier in the year. If southern hemisphere ice cover retreated to 2 million square km then sea levels would have risen by a foot a day peaking at more than 200 feet above normal.

If the graph is presented as being accurate, then it's beyond all possible forms of comprehension that anyone could possibly claim that nearly 90% of Antarctica melted last March - and no-one even noticed, not even the people that are based there. There have been some truly moronic claims made by global warming skeptics in the past but this is taking them to the extreme. Are we really expected to believe that an area 1.5 times the size of the USA disappeared off the face of the planet without anyone noticing.

I have to assume that you're not taking the graph seriously, it's quite clearly a serious error, either that or it's the work of a raving lunatic.

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EDIT: RE YOUR ADDED DETAILS

Unfortunately the page appears to have been removed as I now get a 404 (page not found) error when trying to access it. The title of the page (as can be seen by hovering over youir link) is "Southern Hesmisphere Ice Cover Remains Well Above Normal". The text from the page is reproduced on sites such as Digg and Poughskeepie and all references are to "Southern Hemisphere Ice and not to "sea ice". Makes it hard to comment further when the page is inaccessible but I do remember that the graph contradicted itself in that the heading referred to the Southern Hemisphere but the legend referred to the Northern Hemisphere.

In any event, my answer wasn't meant to be taken all that seriuously as it's clear that no-one, no matter how skeptical; they are, is ever going to make such a wild claim. The graph quite clearly had an error on it, maybe the page is offline because of that, maybe the graph is being revised and will be back online later - who knows.

The Antarctic sea ice does indeed advance and retreat each year with the coming and going of the seasons as does the Arctic and Greenland ice. Some parts of Antarctica have expanded on an average year by year basis, others have contracted. The most relaible indicator when talking about the ice caps is the volume of the ice as opposed to the area or depth. The Antarctic is losing volume each year - a lot less than the Arctic or Greenland but that's to be expected due to the extreme cold temperatures and lesser temperature anomaly than elsewhere on the planet, it will take a lot more global warming before the volume of Antarctic ice is dramatically affected.

Please don't assume to tell me what I do or don't know about Antarctica. I've been there, I've studied the ice myself, right now I have five live feeds direct to / from Antarctic bases so I have a better idea than most people on the planet as to what's really going on there.

Answer 4

Oh that Satellite picture made me shiver. Since it shows how the snow cover reaches down over Minnesota and further South into Iowa, if not Northern Missouri.

What because I can tell that satellite picture is real you give me a thumbs down?

I didn't say anything about the rest of the blog, since it had some misinformation in it.

So your saying that Ice isn't reforming in the Arctic, right now?

Or just so convinced that the Ice Bergs have been shrinking in the Arctic at a supposed alarming rate?

Are they melting now?

I didn't think so.

People have also loved to cry about the Glaciers in Glacier National Park melting. Which is silly, of course they're melting, they are much further South than the Arctic Glaciers.

Answer 5

So are you saying that "Joe's Blog" is a reliable source for information on global ice sheets?

Here's some information that may be a bit more reliable.

'Antarctica lost much more ice to the sea than it gained from snowfall according to a NASA survey done between 1992 and 2002. It also had a corresponding rise in sea level. The survey documented for the first time extensive thinning of the West Antarctic ice shelves. "
http://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/news/20070530/

Scientists Warn on 8 Climate Tipping Points
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2007/aug/16/climatechange.greenland

Excerpts:

Some tipping points for climate change could be closer than previously thought. Scientists are predicting that the loss of the massive Greenland ice sheet may now be unstoppable and lead to catastrophic sea-level rises around the world.

Professor Lenton said: "We know that ice sheets in the last ice age collapsed faster than any current models can capture, so our models are known to be too sluggish."

Prof Lenton said the IPCC way of working, including multiple reviews, caused it to issue more conservative reports than his team's studies. He added that the inevitable collapse of the Greenland ice sheet was closer than thought because of the latency in the Earth's climate system. "If you could stabilise the greenhouse gas levels to today's level, you'll still get some further warming [by 2100]."

A global average temperature rise of just 1C would be enough to slip the Greenland ice over the edge. The IPCC's prediction for 2100 is a rise of 1.1C-6.4C.

Answer 6

It is a temporary phenomenon. You should have taken note of the word 'anamoly' therein, which means that the growth is not supported by any sound explanations and seems an 'odd man out' for the time being.

Secondly, Warming increases more snow storms and blizzards. This might have caused it.

Nevertheless global warming ultimately leads only to melting , flooding coastals.

Answer 7

Many people believe the ice caps are melting even though it's the dead of winter.

Some believers will tell you that growing ice caps are proof that global warming is real.

I like to think NASA's data is right and that there hasn't been any warming in over 10 years.

Answer 8

1. Your link is broken. And who's gonna believe a blog in any case?
2. You have been sadly misinformed. After eliminating seasonal effects, icecaps are shrinking at both poles. Here's the data.
Arctic:
http://nsidc.org/news/press/2007_seaiceminimum/images/20071017_timeseries.png
Antarctic:
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/311/5768/1754

Answer 9

My god, your right!

I knew i shouldn't have listened to all the major scientific bodies in the world:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming_consensus

The world leaders of 150 nations including America

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7120952.stm

80% of the worlds population

http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/articles/home_page/412.php?lb=hmpg1&pnt=412&nid=&id=

and an international panel of 400 scientists and 800 advisors appointed by the World Meteorological Organization (WMO) and by the United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP) to inform world leaders of the issues surrounding global warming and peer reviewed by a further 1500 scientists:

http://www.ipcc.ch/index.htm

If only i'd seen this blog entry i would have clearly known it was all a hoax!

Answer 10

All the data I have seen says they are not growing. In particular the north polar cap is much smaller now than 100 years ago.