If the trinity is God...?

Question

...why would Jesus instruct his followers at Matt. 6:9 to pray to only one third God--the Father only? Why not pray to the whole so-called godhead?

God Child, if the trinity is true, why didn't Jesus say to pray to the Father, Son, and the holy spirit. Isn't that the whole triune God? The Father is only 1/3 God.

Wally, look at the scriptures you posted and see if ANY of them describes God as three co-equal, co-eternal persons.

Rob F, even if Jesus meant that literally, which he didn't, how does his statement indicate a trinity? Do you even see THREE persons mentioned in that verse? No. He only mentioned TWO. So where is your trinity proof in that verse?

Mosa A, that is NOT what Jesus said. He directed us to pray to the Father only, not to a trinity.

Edge, to prove the trinity, you ignore what the trinity is. Not one of your scriptural references says anything about a God composed of three co-equal persons. Does Col. 2:9 even imply a 3-in-one God? Not even close.

Kashif E, Paul did not promote a trinity. At 1 Cor. 11:3, he said: "The head of the Christ is God."

Simon Peter, if what you say is true, why didn't Jesus mention the holy spirit in the proper way to pray? He said to pray to the Father in his (Jesus') name.

Does it make sense to you that Jesus would say to pray to God in the name of God?

In true apostate form, Unsliced Ham has nothing worthwhile to say. That figures.

Jerome K, although it was not your intent, you just DISproved the trinity. Thank you.

Relentless, if Jesus was called himself the Great I AM, why would he contradict himself at John 17:3, where he called his Father the ONLY true God? Being the only true God, we direct our prayers to the Father ONLY, whose name is Jehovah. Ps. 83:18

Nina, if Jesus is God, then he's NOT the trinity, since the trinity teaches that God is made up of THREE persons, NOT just Jesus. He is only ONE person, not a combination of THREE. But Jesus said his Father is the ONLY true God. John 17:3

Another word of nonsense from Unsliced Ham. Am I the only one who noticed that she did NOT answer the question?

Edge, if the human Jesus was fully God, WHY does Phil. 2:7 say that "he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and came to be in the likeness of men." If I have a pocket full of marbles, and then I empty my pocket, is it STILL full of marbles?

Answer 1

Jesus was praying to another person: his Father Jehovah.

"Again, for the second time, he went off and prayed, saying: “My Father, if it is not possible for this to pass away except I drink it, let your will take place.”" -- Matthew 26:42


"... from time indefinite to time indefinite you are God" -- Psalm 90:2 (Also Psalm 93:2)

"He [Jesus] is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation." -- Colossians 1:15

If God has no beginning and if Jesus has, then they are two different persons.


http://www.watchtower.org/e/20050422/article_02.htm

Answer 2

who was Jesus Christ praying to? you cannot pray to yourself. Jesus said he cannot do anything without the Father in the heaven. when Jesus was on the stake, who resurrected him? Jesus could not resurrect himself. Jehovah his Father did. when Jesus was baptized, Jehovah his Father came down like a dove and said this is my son the beloved. so they are not the same. yes Jesus said you seen me you seen the Father, he was with Jehovah for billions of earth before he came to earth. so he knows his Father real well. my daughter looks alot like me but we are not the same

Answer 3

Yes, goto the Father in prayer through the Son, in His name, Amen. I do not set a stumbling stone in front of you sister, the opposite, follow Jesus. The Man is not of a controlling nature, He would like a freewill offering, not to a denomination. I am not sure how your book reads, however a good look into Hebrews 6, would be interesting how any man could twist the TRUTH. Might I encourage you to read in text previous to 1900 in the kings english, the Author of 1000 generations would not want any confusion. Pray before you read and He will give you wisdom unbridled.

Answer 4

well i personally dont believe in the Trinity because there are soooooo many scriptures in the bible that proves its falsehood. for example;

1 Corinthians 11:3; But I want YOU to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn the head of a woman is the man; in turn the head of the Christ is God.

John 14:28; YOU heard that I said to YOU, I am going away and I am coming [back] to YOU. If YOU loved me, YOU would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am

John 17:3  This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.

and that is just a few. however i do respect that ones believe the Trinity and find that it is very encouraging to see that there are ones who look to the bible as a guide in this terrible and troubled world.

Answer 5

Because Jesus was setting the example of how to pray. The disciples were just following His instructions.

Jesus is part of the Godhead.

And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’” Ex. 3:14

Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” Jn. 8:58

For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. Col. 2:9

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory. 1 Tim. 3:16

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Jn. 1:1

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. Jn. 1:14

For there are THREE that bear witness in heaven: the FATHER, the WORD, and the HOLY SPIRIT; and these THREE ARE ONE. 1 Jn. 5:7

Jesus is God.

He is worshiped (Matt. 2:2,11; 14:33; 28:9)
He is prayed to (Acts 7:59; 1 Cor. 1:2)
He was called God (John 20:28; Heb. 1:8)
He was called Son of God (Mark 1:1)
He is sinless (1 Pet. 2:22; Heb. 4:15)
He knew all things (John 21:17)
He gives eternal life (John 20:28)
The fullness of deity dwells in Him (Col. 2:9)

Jesus is Man.

He worshiped the Father (John 17)
He prayed to the Father (John 17:1)
He was called man (Mark 15:39; John 19:5).
He was called Son of Man (John 19:35-37)
He was tempted (Matt. 4:1)
He grew in wisdom (Luke 2:52)
He died (Rom. 5:8)
He has a body of flesh and bones (Luke 24:39)

Answer 6

God is a Trinity. The Bible teaches not only that there is one God, but also that there are three persons in the Godhead, - Father, Son and Holy Spirit. This is a mystery to the human mind, but although it cannot be understood, it can be believed because God's Word says it is so. The word "trinity" is not found in the Bible, but the truth is found in the following passages: (1) Baptism of Jesus, Matthew 3:16-17. The great commission, Matthew 28:19. (3)The benediction of II Corinthians 13:14. The Father is called God in Romans 1:7. The Son is called God in Hebrews 1:8. The Holy Spirit is called God in Acts 5:3-4.

Answer 7

At Mt. 6:9, Jesus did exclude himself and the holy spirit. That is because only the Father is God.

Jesus even said that "only" the Father is "God" at John 17:1-3. If some are inferring that Jesus' exclusion of himself as God is because of his "human nature", then what about the holy spirit? Why isn't the holy spirit included as "only" God in John 17?


Concerning Jesus Christ (IN HEAVEN):

1 Cor. 11:3 says, " But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ." (NASB)
God clearly has headship over Christ. But not only that, God and Christ are phrased as two different persons in this text.


Jesus also referred to God as someone else when he spoke of HIS God IN HEAVEN:

"`The one that conquers—I will make him a pillar in the temple of MY God, and he will by no means go out [from it] anymore, and I will write upon him the name of MY God and the name of the city of MY God, the new Jerusalem which descends out of heaven from MY God, and that new name of mine." (Rev. 3:12)


As for "Fulness of Deity" - Col. 2:9
Col. 2:9 - "For in him [Jesus] the whole fulness of deity [theotes] dwells bodily" - RSV; "divinity" - JB, NJB.

The word theotes appears only this once in the entire New Testament [NT] (and never in the ancient Greek translation of the Old Testament [OT]). It should be remembered also that "Godhead" as found in the older English Bibles (such as KJV) had A DIFFERENT MEANING THAN IT HAS COME TO HAVE IN MODERN ENGLISH:

"In older English ['Godhead'] was a synonym for DIVINITY." - p. 221, Vol. 2, A Dictionary of the Bible, Hastings, 1988 printing; and p. 362, An Intermediate Greek-English Lexicon, Liddell and Scott, Oxford University Press, 1994 printing.

Theotes simply does not literally mean "godhead," and the use of "godhead" by the KJV translators was not intended as some would understand it today. The trinitarian argument that Col. 2:9 proves that Jesus is God overlooks the common understanding of "fulness of ..." and "filled with ..." by those who used those common phrases in New Testament times. For example, the person who became "filled with Holy Spirit" (Eph. 5:18) was greatly influenced by that spirit, but he certainly did not become the Holy Spirit.

"Just as a person can be full of pain, joy, love, and virtue, he can also be said to be filled with God ..., i.e. possessed and inspired by God." - Vol. 1, p. 734 -The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology

Surely we wouldn't expect anyone who is "filled with" God or who receives the "fulness of" God to actually be God. Nor would we expect anyone who has the "fulness of" Christ to actually be Christ. In fact it clearly shows that he is NOT the person with whom he is "filled". -RDB

Answer 8

The trinity is not something you can divide into a fraction. When someone prays to the Father, it is as much God as Jesus and the Holy Spirit is. You need an understanding of each role of the three persons of the trinity to realize the significance of praying to the Father, in this circumstance. Read John 14:16, 17. The Holy Spirit is indwelt in true believers. One is supposed to read the Bible with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. That's something Jehovah's Witnesses don't have. "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth Him not, neither knoweth Him: but ye know Him; for He dwelleth with you, and shall be in you".

And of course, Jesus could not fulfill his promise of salvation to those who believe in him if he wasn't God. It's pretty self-explanatory, really. However, don't take my word for it. Take God's Word for it. Read the Bible, like NASB which says in Exodus 3:14 that God said "I AM who I AM", and that "I AM has sent me to you." That same declaration is echoed by Jesus himself in John 8:58.

You also do not demonstrate understanding of prayer. Note that the Bible does not instruct against praying to Jesus or the Holy Spirit. Once you understand their position in the trinity, it's obvious that we can use Matthew 6:9 as a model prayer. Ephesians 2:18 teaches we have access to the Father through Jesus. Romans 8:26 talks about the Holy Spirit interceding for us. The Holy Spirit intercedes for us to the glory of the Father. It all makes sense as a unit, not as a separation. In fact, that verse is a clear declaration of the trinity itself. The Bible instructs us to pray in Jesus' name (John 14:13-14) with the power of the Holy Spirit, which indwells believers. It is the power of all three persons working as one in unity. It's quite an amazing thing to experience as a Christian.

So with all of that, I will certainly be praying for you to the Father, in Jesus' name, and calling upon the Holy Spirit. They are all God.

Answer 9

Most of Christendom believes in the trinity which indicates that they are going through that wide gate where the way is easy, that leads to destruction as spoken of in Matthew 7:13-14. But the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.

Answer 10

Jesus was a human, therefore he gave up his rights for being God (Philippians 2). No one was to worship or pray to him since he was merely a human like everyone else. Jesus came to do the Will of the Father and to show people The Way (set the example). The Holy Spirit is God's Spirit, so praying to God is like praying to his Spirit as well. It is God who sends his Spirit to complete his work.

There you have it.

EDIT:
LOL, I didn't disprove the trinity. God made a part of himself as a human. It was God but he was a HUMAN. Do you know what human means? God was a HUMAN.

By the way, everyone...JWs believe God ISN'T omnipresent NOR omniscient. What does THAT tell you?

The only verse you will ever need is 1 Timothy 3:15-16. If you think the "God" in this verse isn't Jehovah, then that wouldn't add up to your "god" in John 1:1.

UPDATE:

The Holy Spirit isn't just a "power" like you think.

He is eternal: "the eternal spirit" (Heb.9:14). There never was a time when he was not.

He is all-powerful: "The Holy Spirit… the power of the Most High" (Lk.1:35).

He is everywhere present (omnipresent) at the same time: "Where can I go from your Spirit? Or where can I fly from your presence? (Ps.139:7).

He is all-knowing (omniscient): "For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the spirit searches all things, even the depths of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man, which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God" 1Cor.2:10-11).

The Holy Spirit is called God: In Acts 5:3-4: "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit?… you have not lied to men, but to God". "The Lord who is the Spirit" (2Cor.3:18).

The Holy Spirit has a personality, can speak for himself and has a mind:
(see Romans 8:27).
--The Holy Spirit helped to settle questions during the Church Council at Jerusalem (see Acts 15:28).
--The Holy Spirit dispenses gifts to different individuals according as He wills (see 1 Corinthians 12:8-11).
--The Holy Spirit forbade some from going to preach in certain places (see Acts 16:6-7).
--The Holy Spirit anointed Jesus and sent Him out to preach the gospel (see Luke 4:18-19); In fact, both the Father and the Holy Spirit sent Jesus (see Isaiah 48:16).
--The Holy Spirit testifies or witnesses of Jesus (see John 15:26).
--The Holy Spirit leads God’s people (see Romans 8:14).
--The Holy Spirit teaches and causes us to remember the truth (John 14:26).
--The Holy Spirit comforts us as does Christ (John 14:16).
--The Holy Spirit strives with us (see Genesis 6:3).
--The Holy Spirit reproves us of sin, righteousness, and judgment (see John 16:8-11).
--The Holy Spirit instructs us (see Nehemiah 9:20).
--The Holy Spirit speaks, guides, hears and shows (John 16:13-15).
--The Holy Spirit speaks, chooses, calls and sends forth (see Acts 13:1-4).
--The Holy Spirit gives messages to prophets and they declare: “Thus saith the Holy Ghost” (see Acts 21:11).
--The Holy Spirit has knowledge, and searches all things (see 1 Corinthians 2:10-11).
--The Holy Spirit sanctifies us (see Romans 15:16).
--The Holy Spirit holds communion with us (see 2 Corinthians 13:14); and so does Christ (see 1 Corinthians 1:9).
--The Holy Spirit is the source of regeneration and renewal for salvation (see John 3:5-8; Titus 3:5).
--The Holy Spirit resurrects the faithful from the dead (see Romans 8:11; 1 Peter 3:18).
--The Holy Spirit is the author of the Bible and moved upon the prophets to speak (see 2 Peter 1:21).
--The Holy Spirit is another Comforter other than Christ (see John 14:16).
--The Holy Spirit helps our infirmities (see Romans 8:26).
--The Holy Spirit can be tempted and lied to (see Acts 5:3, 9).
–The Holy Spirit can be blasphemed and sinned against (see Mark 3:28-29; Luke 12:10; Matthew 12:31).
--The Holy Spirit is another Intercessor other than Christ (see Romans 8:26); The Spirit intercedes for us through prayer, while Christ intercedes for us through His precious blood, merits and righteousness.

Answer 11

Trinity: A False Doctrine

[4:171] O people of the scripture, do not transgress the limits of your religion, and do not say about GOD except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was a messenger of GOD, and His word that He had sent to Mary, and a revelation from Him. Therefore, you shall believe in GOD and His messengers. You shall not say, "Trinity." You shall refrain from this for your own good. GOD is only one god. Be He glorified; He is much too glorious to have a son. To Him belongs everything in the heavens and everything on earth. GOD suffices as Lord and Master.

[4:172] The Messiah would never disdain from being a servant of GOD, nor would the closest angels. Those who disdain from worshipping Him, and are too arrogant to submit, He will summon them all before Him.

[4:173] As for those who believe and lead a righteous life, He will fully recompense them, and shower them with His grace. As for those who disdain and turn arrogant, He will commit them to painful retribution. They will find no lord beside GOD, nor a savior.