Mormons - Why is it that so many of you will disparage quotes from the Journal of Discourses...?

Question

...when a huge amount of material from that source is used in church manuals, instruction materials, books, quotes, etc.

Do you ever say, "Well, that's from the Journal of Discourses, which isn't an official church publication, so it's probably wrong," when you are reading the Priesthood and Relief Society manuals or accounts in the Ensign?

What, you get to pick and choose from the same source which are the historically correct quotes and which aren't?

I'm am truly amazed at how this works, especially since many of the "anti" quotes taken from this publication are supported by numerous other sources (pioneer diaries, letters, newspapers, magazines, etc.)

It seems that some people just want to put their fingers in their ears and chant, "I can't hear you," whenever someone brings up a point that might challenge their beliefs.

Answer 1

A big part of Mormon doctrine is the teaching that while we should certainly study what past prophets and apostles have said, it should not be at the expense of what the current prophet and apostles are saying needs to be followed *now* - sometimes things in published works like the JoD are items that are out-of-date (on issues like polygamy), and are not presently applicable. Think of it being somewhat like the Mosaic Law - you wouldn't condemn members of other Christian denominations for not following it, even though a prophet, Moses, is the one who implemented it. It's the same thing with Mormon Church doctrine - the Lord teaches us what the people of a certain time need to hear when they need to hear it, and the present Church mauals and magazines (Ensign, New Era, etc.) are written to reflect that (so cetain items are not wrong in the way you're meaning, they're just not items that, like the Mosaic Law, are present doctrine).

One thing to remember about the anti-Mormons quoting from it is to remember that they don't limit themselves to passing outright falsehoods. A favorite modus operandi of theirs is to quote things that are technically correct, but are deliberately taken out of context to make it seem like the speaker or author was saying something entirely different than they actually were (and it's not just from the Journal of Discourses). Another favorite habit of the "antis" is that they take something that's the personal opinion of some who just happens to have been in a major position of leadership in the Church, and then try to pass that opinion off as canon Church doctrine, even though it was never anything of the sort and was never intended to be anything of the sort (and yes, there IS a difference between the two!).

So please don't think we're disparage quotes from the Journal of Discourse, but I'll bet if you were to ask follow-up questions to some of us, you'd find that more than a few of us have the attitude we do because, unlike the "antis", we've learned to keep said quotes in their proper context and perspective.

(Hope you don't mind me making my comments a bit more general than just geared specifically towards the JoD, since while your comments are specifically towards that, the response is, I feel, applicable to a wider scale.)

Answer 2

I for one, have never disparaged the Journal of Discourses. While the doctrinal information contained therein can be good and valuable, I do not look to the Journal of Discourses as canonized scripture, as it is not. The best source of doctrine and instruction comes from the scriptures, IE the Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price. Additionally, the monthly publication of the LDS Church called the "Ensign" magazine is also a good source of doctrine that is recent and relevant to our times.

Answer 3

Well, I've never disparaged the Journal of Discourses... however, I would readily disparage how some people use them. Often, people quoting the JoD don't understand all the things previous to it. JoD is NOT in our cannon of scripture. Lesson manuals are prepared through revelation, which guides the church leadership to know what is of most benefit to our souls, including quotes from the JoD. However, most anti-Mormons do not have the Holy Spirit to guide them in their interpretation or understanding of the JoD or other sources. They twist things up and express them wrongly.

It is not a black and white thing. Some truth is better left for later as humans are too much "ye, of little faith"... and can't accept things that they don't comprehend.

The accepted cannon of scripture, and the lesson manuals, etc, are designed to be understood by people of many different backgrounds, to promote faith in God and progression towards spiritual enlightenment. If some people feel enlightened by the stranger things (such as concepts expressed in the JoD) then they are welcome to explore such. If others feel uncomfortable with that, there is no reason why they should feel obliged to believe it, even if they are Mormons. This journey is for our own benefit. What is not of faith is sin. Therefore, avoid that which makes you feel doubtful, and refrain from denigrating the revelations that some people find inspiring and expansive to their minds and souls.

Answer 4

This is how mormons officially view JoD:

"The Journal of Discourses is not an official publication of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. It is a compilation of sermons and other materials from the early years of the Church, which were transcribed and then published. It includes practical advice as well as doctrinal discussion, some of which is speculative in nature and some of which is only of historical interest. ... Questions have been raised about the accuracy of some transcriptions. Modern technology and processes were not available for verifying the accuracy of transcriptions, and some significant mistakes have been documented. The Journal of Discourses includes interesting and insightful teachings by early Church leaders; however, by itself it is not an authoritative source of Church doctrine."

Answer 5

Most of what is in the Journal of Discourses is true. Anti-Mormons consistently quote material from the Journal of Discourses that is not true (i.e. that is not part of modern Mormon beliefs/doctrine).

Anti-Mormons often "quote-mine" the Journal of Discourses, despite the fact that Mormons do not consider it doctrinally binding. The Journal of Discourses can be used when it supports true doctrine (i.e. truths that have been revealed through other, more reliable sources), but it is not doctrinally definitive.

Similarly, traditional Christians often quote from early church fathers. The words of early church fathers are not necessarily always correct, but when they are correct, modern Christians often cite them to support their modern beliefs.

http://www.allaboutmormons.com

Answer 6

When I was a mormon in UT and this was only in my ward or stake, they believed in the J of D. and taught on it. There was some crazy doctrines going around and some fanatical stuff, which is why I left the church. Like satan is after us and the people who are not mormons are controled by satan and God is like big brother and always watching us, the UT mormons in my ward were really paranoid! I develo[ed fears and tics and wouldn't go outside my house for a few years, it was too much.

Answer 7

Sorry if I am an ignorant Mormon--I guess that I only study the scriptures and somewhat read the Ensign (I don't have much time--that's the monthly church publication, by the way.)

I don't care if you want to get me to challenge my beliefs. I am comfortable with them. Nothing has confronted me yet that caused my faith to be shaken. Ask away.

Answer 8

You are a Mormon troll, and sooner or later someone will get tired of your BS, and they will take appropriate measures to ensure that you will be taken care of.

Answer 9

I've never seen that happen. Do you have an example?

Why are you so intent on discrediting mormons? You left a long time ago didn't you?

Answer 10

This question applies to most faith based beliefs that have holy inspired scripture.