Trinity: The definition below confused me about "The One" who ressurects Jesus, when Jesus is God...

Question

, or that Jesus and the Holy Ghost are God. They say that the one ressurected Lord Jesus is God the Father, Jesus Himself and the Holy Spirit. My curious mind is simply telling me that Christ literally died, so it so for the God the Father who is Jesus and the Holy Spirit too. Help for clarification.

Definition: The central doctrine of religions of Christendom. According to the Athanasian Creed, there are three divine Persons (the Father, the Son, the Holy Ghost), each said to be eternal, each said to be almighty, none greater or less than another, each said to be God, and yet together being but one God. Other statements of the dogma emphasize that these three “Persons” are not separate and distinct individuals but are three modes in which the divine essence exists. Thus some Trinitarians emphasize their belief that Jesus Christ is God, or that Jesus and the Holy Ghost are God.

Answer 1

Here's a look into the Trinity on Jesus Christ's behalf...

Many have been struggling with the Trinity, what it means and how it could be. To completely understand it, we never will until we are in His presence, because our minds are too small. I want to shed a little bit of scripture that should help though. To begin with, I want you to think of time. Time is endless, it goes on forever just as God does, but, the difference is God is outside of time. He created time. He created all. Looking at time though, we have three distinct, separate parts: past, present, and future. Together each makes up time. They are not different beings/entities; they are all components of time, just different parts of it. You can’t have one without the other, and you can’t take away one without destroying time.

Before I get into this next part, a few definitions....

Tri-theism: three distinct gods

Polytheistic: belief in or worship of more than one god.

Pantheon: the gods of a people

So many people choose to argue that the Trinity is a Pagan concept. You have to remember that tri-theisms are a subset of polytheistic pantheons. Tri-theisms such as those in the Hindu Greek pantheons were not actual triads. You won't find one tri-theism where the members of that pantheon subset consisted of two or more individual entities that were of equal nature. Nor will you find a tri-theism consisting two or more individuals who manifested one entity such as the Trinity teaches. Members of pagan pantheons were often not omnipresent, omnipotent, had a beginning, were capricious , etc. Nothing even remotely close to the Hebrew-Christian teachings of the Trinity. The early church fathers were strongly opposed against Greek pagan teachings and could have not possibly made a mixture of Christian and pagan teachings. Also, you have to remember that to invent the Trinity is beyond the capacity of man or even Satan. Man cannot possibly conceive of the inconceivable. Man cannot conceive of anything non-intelligible or beyond the physical realm that exists outside of the five senses (sight, hearing, taste, touch, smell). Therefore, the Trinity has to exist outside of man's capacity to invent concepts.

The fact pagan concepts predate a Biblical concept doesn't demonstrate that concept to be unscriptural or borrowed. I would submit that Pagan concepts are nothing more than a distortion of the truth as opposed to being the other way around. After all no lie exists which cannot be said to be finite. If the Anti-Trinitarian or Unitarian logic were consistent, then they should dismiss their own beliefs as being pagan in origin. Please allow me to explain. Before Moses was born, there was a Pharaoh who ruled in Egypt named Akhenaton. King Akhenaton destroyed every statue and image of every Egyptian deity except for the Sun God Horus. This means that Akhenaton promoted monotheistic Unitarian worship before Moses was born. Therefore, since Moses wrote the Pentateuch or the first five books of scripture (Genesis through Deuteronomy) this means that this took place well before the Bible was written. If Unitarian logic were consistent, they should reject their own beliefs since a pagan promoted monotheistic anti-Trinitarian worship prior to the writing of scripture. Bible-bashing professing Atheists and Agnostics often make much of the fact there were flood and creation stories which were written prior to the writing of scripture. And because of that fact, they use the same logic that well-intended Unitarians use. The faulty logic that a pagan concept exists prior to a Christian concept demonstrates the Christian concept was borrowed from paganism. Sadly, such logic ultimately leads to unbelief of scripture as a whole.


This is far different than pagan triad gods, or what people imagine of the Trinity even if they don’t know or understand pagan gods. In the pagan triad, you could take away one, and have no effect on the other two, they would still be gods, in fact, there would be a god that had been a god longer than the others and so forth. With the Trinity, and not to make it too simple and watered down, if you took away one, it would be like taking the legs off a person, the arms, the eyes, etc. They are all in one, and without one part of it, the Godhead would not function the same. We are similar in our body make-up. We have the outward flesh and moving parts. We have the inner organs that make those things work controlled by the brain. Then we have our thoughts which we use to speak words, eat to sustain life and know where to find that food, and so forth. You cannot survive or exist without any of those three parts, and one cannot live outside of the other. Let’s look at some scripture shall we?



1John 4:12

"No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us."

In this verse we see that no man has seen God at any time. Pretty plain and simple right? In fact, we are told in other places how if you see God, you would surely die. Alright, now look…



Genesis 17:1

"And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect."

Genesis 18:1

"And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;"

These are just two verses in which God clearly appears to men, and they see Him. Not an angel of the Lord, as some would say. If it were an angel of the Lord, it would say “In the name of the Lord” or “Thus saith the Lord” the in conversation we see later in the chapters. That does not happen. There are of course more verses that show this type of thing. WHAT? Is there a contradiction? Seems like it right? This is a common scenario you would encounter with faiths like Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons, Islam, and more that deny the deity of Jesus Christ. Seems a bit overwhelming at the onset, and many people are flustered by this. Don’t give up, let’s keep looking.



John 1:1

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

The Word here is Jesus Christ. Often people will point at the Bible and say that is the Word….but that’s actually the Word of God, totally different. Jesus Christ is the Word, much in the same way as your thoughts are a part of you that allow you to speak and be heard. It says plainly, that in the beginning He was there. That in itself tells us He had no beginning, no start, He is eternal. He was not created, as some people would like to have you believe, He was there from the beginning. It goes further to tell us that He was God. Now, Jehovah's witnesses change this verse in their corrupt translation of the Bible, the NWT (New World Translation). The last part of the verse reads "and the Word was [a] god.". No I am not kidding. It is in brackets like that as well. This translation completely goes against any Greek interpretation, and just is not in there. It also presents then with a problem. They will quickly tell you there are two types of gods. God the Father, and then everything else is a false god. They deny that Jesus is part of God, so, the Jesus they follow clearly is a false god. They are in a quandary! Add on top of that, John, being a devout Jew would never call Jesus "a god" as that would be blasphemous to the One True God. John knew who God was, and knew Jesus was part of God as well. So from the onset, before anything, Jesus was God. Now we’re getting somewhere.



John 1:14

"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

Here we see where Jesus was made into flesh. This of course was through the Holy Spirit. That being the case, the Holy Spirit cannot be an “active force” or creation, or anything else people try to make Him into. Something created, or a force could do nothing to plant the seed for the fleshly form of Jesus Christ. It is impossible. We have already seen that Jesus Christ is God as well, and something below Him could not possibly incarnate Him into flesh. The Holy Spirit, thus, is also God. Hmm, getting warmer aren’t we? This was when Jesus was planted into Mary to become flesh and bones just like us, to walk among us, and ultimately to pay the price for our sins. It also addresses the Father, and Jesus His begotten Son. We can see now the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. All clearly defined as God. Different functions, but all of the same, because:



Isaiah 42:8

“I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.”

This act is sharing in God’s glory, which would not be permissible unless they were actually God. So then, we see there are three distinct, different parts of God that make up God. So how did these people see God? Because, in the appearances of the Old Testament, it was Jesus Christ. This is referred to as a theophany, an appearance of God. This was before He was incarnated into flesh for His ministry on Earth. He could appear, and as God, He would be able to meet face to face with man. Man would not be consumed as he would if it were God in all His Glory. That would, of course, be too much for us to handle, and then we would die. So, God was able to appear in the form of Jesus Christ who took on an appearance of man, but was not yet flesh and blood.



Isaiah 9:6

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

Isaiah prophesied here about Jesus becoming flesh and blood. Notice, He says He would be called the Mighty God and everlasting Father. This man was a devout Jew. He knew exactly who God was and worshipped only one God. In fact, God Himself was inspiring him to write and make prophecy. Clearly, Isaiah would never call someone these names if He were not one in the same as the God of the Old Testament, YHWH, or Yahweh. Furthermore, God would not have allowed him to write it! Further proof, Jesus is God and there is a Trinity that makes up this Godhead.

Now that may leave one asking, “Why did Jesus say the Father is greater than him?” or “Why did Jesus pray to the Father?” Let’s take a look at another verse…



Philippians 2:5-8

"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. "

Here we see where Jesus emptied Himself for a little while. This does not mean that He got rid of any of His attributes as God. You would deny His deity to say so. He was still God in every way, but He came to be a servant versus stern ruler and use His power over men. As a man He had to show us the way, He revealed the Father to us and how to talk to Him and come before Him. The Father was in Heaven, Jesus was God, but came to earth for His ministry. That’s how He emptied Himself. He left all glory in Heaven and came here. When He says the Father is greater, it is because the Father is in Heaven in glory, and he (Jesus) was here. He was fully man, and fully God, He just did not exercise all His Godly powers as He came to serve and to save.



Hebrews 1:6

"And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him."

From cover to cover in the Bible, you will find a multitude of verses that enforce that God shares His glory and worship with no one. Only He can receive it. Plain as day in this verse, God the Father commands His angels to worship Jesus Christ. God is sovereign, holy, and righteous and would never command His angels to worship anything except...God. Straightforward, unless you are a Jehovah's Witness. Their NWT changes the word "worship" to "obeisance". In fact, everywhere in their translation, they translate the Greek word to obeisance when it is in reference to Jesus Christ; however, when it refers to God, false gods, and even Satan, it is translated as worship. Sounds like a hidden agenda doesn't it? It is! See, I have a 1950 AND a 1960 version of the NWT, and it says WORSHIP in this verse. That's right. It was not until 1970 that they changed it to obeisance. This coming from a group calling itself the faithful and discreet slave, yet by definition in the Bible, the faithful and discreet slave will not be on a learning curve and make mistakes like this. Mistakes that mislead. Of course, they are a whole other discussion.

That’s the Trinity in a nutshell, on Jesus Christ's behalf, with Biblical proof. To deny the divinity of Jesus, and deny that He is God as is the Father and the Holy Spirit, is to deny God all together, and you are doomed. I will have proof of Holy Spirit as a part of God rather than just an active force in an upcoming article as well. Stay tuned.

Answer 2

The Father is the only true God (John 17:3; 1 Corinthians 8:6). Jesus is God the Father manifest in the flesh (1 Timothy 3:16) and the fulness of the Godhead dwells in Him in bodily form (Colossians 2:9). The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God the Father (Mark 13:11; Luke 12:12 with Matthew 10:20). God is not a trinity of persons. The term "person" is a more or less human term that people use to describe an infinite God who is vastly superior to His creation. In human terms, however, I suppose one could say that God is only one "person" and that one "person" took on a human existence as the Son. That's where the distinction between the Father and the Son arises. Apostolic Believer in One God, JESUS

Answer 3

There is no stamp of approval from God on the Athanasian Creed, but there is God's stamp of approval on the Bible, the Word of God. And the Bible nowhere supports the Trinitarian Doctrine. Your confusion comes from trying to rectify the two completely contrary documents.

Athanasian Creed says, "...none greater or less than another..."
But Jesus said, "My Father is greater than I" (John 14:28). Was Jesus mistaken?

Athanasian Creed says, "...each said to be eternal..."
But the Bible says Jesus died (Romans 5:6, 8, 8:34, 14:9, 15, 1 Corinthians 8:11, 15:3, 1 Thessalonians 5:10, Revelation 1:18, etc...).


Trinitarian Doctrine: "... these three “Persons” are not separate and distinct individuals but are three modes in which the divine essence exists."
The Word of God: John 8:17-18 -- It is also written in your law that the testimony of two men is true. I am One who bears witness of Myself, and the Father who sent Me bears witness of Me."

Who knows more about God, God or men? Who's witness is true, that of God or men? Who are you going to believe, God or men?

Answer 4

Using reasonings it is hard to defend the trinity as biblical truth, for example:

No man has seen God (John 1:18)

Some say that Jesus was God in the flesh but to of seen Jesus would of still contradicted John 1:18

The trinity is hard to justify in the Bible without contradicting itself.

Revelation 1:1
A revelation that God gave to Jesus....

Jesus is God how does Jesus reveal something to himself?

Satan offered Jesus all the kingdoms of the world. Jesus is God so how could Satan offer God anything let alone his worst enemy?

What is the hardship of God being obedient to Himself?

Why did God pray to himself?

If Father, Son and holy spirit are 3 persons yet one God doesn't that make God a them and an organisation?

Was the Godhead broken up when Jesus came to Earth? Was there only 2/3 God in heaven?

If Jesus is at the right hand of God where is the Holy Spirit? On his left?

When Jesus was baptised God said this is my Son whom I have approved. Why would God need approval from God?
Also when the holy spirit came down like a dove was God still all one? I mean we had Jesus in the Jordon, Holy spirit coming down on him and God up in heaven. According to the trinity then all three spirits had become three seperate entites thus the all in one godhead cannot be true.

I know asking all these stumbling questions what you will likely hear is it is a mystery. Heck if trinity believers cannot understand it either how can they put faith in it?
The Bible purpose to to reveal God and his purposes to mankind not confuse mankind.

Answer 5

All you really have to concern yourself with is that you never blaspheme the Holy Spirit. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is not forgiven. Blasphemies of both the Father and the Son are forgiven.

How does the Holy Spirit not get blasphemed when you doubt the Father and the Son?

How must you never doubt the Holy Spirit, even if you distrust the Father and the Son?

Figure out how that's done and you'll never doubt God ever again.

Answer 6

All 3 are THE ONE GOD

Oneness likes to think that Father, Son and Spirit are only titles and roles that God the Spirit plays throughout time. If we examine the biblical record their view is "contradictions are us."

The Father is God Gal.1:1, Eph..4:6, Gal.1:1 "Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;" the him is the Son)

Phil.1:2 "Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord"

The Son is God Rom.9:5, Col.2:9, Jn.1:1... "and the word was God."

1 Jn. 5:20..., and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life." Rom. 9:5 Isa. 9:6, Col.2:9, Heb. 1:8

The Holy Spirit is God Gen. 1:2, Acts 5:3-4, 1Cor.2:11, 1 Cor.6:19, 1 Cor3:17 .."Now the Lord (Yahweh) is that Spirit" Isa. 11:2 The Spirit of the Lord.

All three simultaneously exist

The Father is eternal James 1:17

The Son is eternal Hebrews 13:8 " Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today, and forever." Micah 5:2 " speaking of Jesus-whose goings forth are from old (ancient times) from everlasting (eternity)"

The Holy Spirit is eternal Heb. 9:14

I hope and pray that I helped you in this way.....

Answer 7

(2 Corinthians 4:4) “among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through.”

Clearly, there are many gods. Some, as we have seen, are named in the Bible. Yet, people who saw Jehovah’s power long ago exclaimed: “Jehovah is the true God! Jehovah is the true God!” (1 Kings 18:39) Another god, however, also has power. The Bible says: “The god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not.”—2 Corinthians 4:4, King James Version.

Answer 8

The son who is also the father and the holy ghost at the same time dies and goes to hell for a while, the father who is also the son and the holy spirit remains in the heaven, and the holy ghost who is also Jesus and his father at the same time, no body knows where he is at that time.

While Jesus who is also son and his own father at the same time in hell, the heaven and eart runs on its own.

Hope it is clear!

Answer 9

They call it a Mystery..why? I will never Know. Its Plain Nonsense from a Biblical Point of View.

Answer 10

GOD is only one GOD.
Jesus (PBUH) is the messenger of GOD.
Holy Spirit is the other name of Angel Gabriel and the messenger of GOD.


Many non-Muslims have come to incorrectly believe that Allah is the ‘God of Muslims’ – A deity somehow different from the God of the other faiths. It should be emphasized that the term “Allah” has no implied meaning at all of an Arabian god, a Moon god or even a Muslim god. Muslims are not claiming any exclusiveness when they say "Allah". However Allah is simply the Arabic Name of the one Almighty God; the same name by which Arabic-speaking Jews and Christians, refer to God. The Allah comes from the term ‘al-ilaah’. Al is the definite article in Arabic, equivalent to ‘the’ in English, while ilaah means ‘a deity or god’. So Allah means The God. This is beautifully articulated in the first pillar of Islam which is to believe that God is One, in Arabic it would be, "La ilaha illallah" meaning "There is no god but God"

"The similitude of Jesus before Allah (God) is that of Adam; He created him from dust then said to him: 'Be', and he was." The Holy Qur'an,Chapter 3,Verse 59

The Holy Spirit has been mentioned in the Quran several times and many questions have been raised about the identity of the Holy Spirit in the Quran. Many of the questions come from our Christian brothers and sisters who wonder if the Holy Spirit in the Quran is the third of their Trinity beliefs.

Quran is very clear in denouncing Trinity (5:73) and affirming the Oneness of God Almighty. (112:1-4). The Holy Spirit in the Quran is clearly defined as the angel Gabriel who has been the angel-messenger between The Almighty God and the human beings, e.g. Mary, Jesus, and prophet Muhammed.

In reference to Gabriel, the Arabic Quran calls him; "Ruhhil-Qudus" (Holy Spirit),
"Ruuhanaa" (Our Spirit), "Ruuhul-'Amiin" (The Honest Spirit) and "Al-Ruh' " (The Spirit) . Thus, when reading the verses in the Quran, the whole Quran, we see that Gabriel is the Holy and Honest Bearer of Revelations. We learn from 2:97 that these references are indeed talking about Gabriel.

[2:97] Say, "Anyone who opposes Gabriel should know that he has brought
down this (Quran) into your heart, in accordance with GOD's will, confirming
previous scriptures, and providing guidance and good news for the believers."

To understand the connection between the Angel Gabriel and calling him the Spirit, the Holy Spirit and the Honest Spirit in the Quran we should also read all related verses, 16:102 & 26:192-193.

[16:102] Say, "The Holy Spirit has brought it (Quran) down from your Lord, truthfully, to assure those who believe, and to provide a beacon and good news for the submitters."

[26:192] This (Quran) is a revelation from the Lord of the universe.

[26:193] The Honest Spirit (Gabriel) came down with it.

Thus, the following verses from the Quran are also talking about Gabriel.

[2:87] We gave Moses the scripture, and subsequent to him we sent other messengers, and we gave Jesus, son of Mary, profound miracles and supported him with the Holy Spirit. Is it not a fact that every time a messenger went to you with anything you disliked, your ego caused you to be arrogant? Some of them you rejected, and some of them you killed.

[2:253] These messengers; we blessed some of them more than others. For example, GOD spoke to one, and we raised some of them to higher ranks.
And we gave Jesus, son of Mary, profound miracles and supported him with the Holy Spirit.

[5:110] GOD will say, "O Jesus, son of Mary, remember My blessings upon you and your mother. I supported you with the Holy Spirit, to enable you to speak to the people from the crib, as well as an adult. I taught you the scripture, wisdom, the Torah, and the Gospel.

[19:17-19] While a barrier separated her from them, we sent to her our Spirit.
He went to her in the form of a human being. She said, "I seek refuge in the Most Gracious, that you may be righteous." He said, "I am the messenger of your Lord, to grant you a pure son."

[78:38] The day will come when the Spirit and the angels will stand in a row.
None will speak except those permitted by the Most Gracious, and they will utter only what is right.

[97:4] The angels and the Spirit descend therein, by their Lord's leave, to carry out every command.

It is interesting that God chose to mention the " Spirit and the angels" in these last two verses . In the Arabic language it is not unusual to specify part of a whole group to emphasize the significance of that part. Quran has many examples like these, e.g.. in
55:68 God talks about fruits, dates and pomegranate to emphasize the last two kinds of fruits.

[55:68] In them are fruits, date palms, and pomegranate.

In 2:238 God talks about Salat and the middle salat to emphasize its significance of the middle salat.

We should also know that the Arabic word "Roh" has been used in the Quran to mean the "revelation from God" as in 16:2, 17:85 and 40:15 and also to mean the soul in many other verses, e.g. 21:91, 66:12, 15:29, 38:72....etc

In conclusion, the "Holy Spirit" in the Quran refers to the angle Gabriel and has nothing to do with Trinity or part of a Trinity.
http://www.submission.org/jesus/holy_spirit.html


Gross Blasphemy

[19:88] They said, "The Most Gracious has begotten a son"!

[19:89] You have uttered a gross blasphemy.

[19:90] The heavens are about to shatter, the earth is about to tear asunder, and the mountains are about to crumble.

[19:91] Because they claim that the Most Gracious has begotten a son.

[19:92] It is not befitting the Most Gracious that He should beget a son.

[19:93] Every single one in the heavens and the earth is a servant of the Most Gracious.

[19:94] He has encompassed them, and has counted them one by one.

[19:95] All of them will come before Him on the Day of Resurrection as individuals

Answer 11

You must be Spiritually minded to understand Spiritual things. Go and find what it means to be Spiritually minded.