Two sets of 144,000?

Question

Look at these verses in Revelation that are in reference to the 144,000.

These two verses go together.
Rev 14:3
And they sing a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders and no one could learn the song except the hundred and fourty four thousand, who have been purchased from the earth"

Revelation 14:4
These are they who have not been defiled with women for they are virgins. They are they who follow the Lamb wherever He may go. These were purchased from among men as Firstfruits to God and to the Lamb.

So we see the 1st set of 144,000. The Firstfruits.

NOW.
Revelation 7:4
' And I heard the number of those who were sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel."

This second set of 144.000 of the Twelve tribes Sealed. These are the chosen Israelites preserved on earth.

Share a little on this matter. I am particularly interested in the Firstfruit.

Ty so much for sharing

sandy

Sweet- I am in no way shape or form a JW. I am a born again believer in the Lord Jesus. Its a shame that they have ranted so much about this aspect of the word that it seems to put a mental block on us the minute we see the number. I wanted some sound fellowship through an answer to this question not sarcasm.:)

Sister nina. Care to give me some more on that? (((((( Nina))))))))

Please..I am not interested in any Mormon or JW doctrine. This is addressed to born again believers in Christ.

Hey sweet sister Leslie. I hear you on the 144,000 being the Jews from each tribe but they are not the "firstfruits"
The timeframe of the Jews and the Firstfruit is different and happen at different times in the book of Revelation.But you are RIGHT.. its a wonderful amazing study.
Check out the 144,000 in Rev 14 in some more details ok sis:)

Hello there Brother George:)
Ty for posting.
I can see the logic of saying that the 144,000 are mentioned twice but the Firstfruit and the 144,000 from the Tribes of Israel are not one and the same. 144,000 Jews actually have gone through the tribulation.. these are those who kept God's commandments and remained true.
These 144,000 as the Firstfruits are raptured before the Great Tribulation. They are those who were alive and ready for the rapture of the early overcomers. The Thing about the early overcomers.. those who were transformed do so early. Thats why there are called the "Firstfruit" .
Firstfruit are those who were ripened first. They are for the enjoyment of the Lord.
May we be part of the firstfruits brother.
I sure wish we had time to go through this in more detail. Its FACINATING.:)
Ty so much Don for your words.
Ty brothers.
In Christ
sandy

Answer 1

There are two groups of 144000 in Revelation apparently.

They are 144,000 persons from the every tribe of Israel (Revelation 7:4). They are sealed (Revelation 7:3). 12,000 are from each tribe of Israel (Revelation 7:5-8)

Revelation 7:9 shows us a great multitude saved suggesting that the primary function of the 144,000 are to be preachers to their fellow brethren Israel and the rest of the world!

There are two groups of 144,000 in Revelation, one in Revelation 7 (xplained above), and the other one in Revelation 14 seems to be a different group from the first 144,000 ... in many ways.

They are apparently not the same.

Revelation Chapter 14
The Lamb and the 144,000
1Then I saw the Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with him were 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads. 2And I heard a sound from heaven like the roaring of a great waterfall or the rolling of mighty thunder. It was like the sound of many harpists playing together.
3This great choir sang a wonderful new song in front of the throne of God and before the four living beings and the twenty-four elders. And no one could learn this song except those 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. 4For they are spiritually undefiled, pure as virgins, following the Lamb wherever he goes. They have been purchased from among the people on the earth as a special offering to God and to the Lamb. 5No falsehood can be charged against them; they are blameless.

I heard that Mount Zion is actually located in Afghanistan. Have you heard that?

The word pure as virgins means someone who is Not doing evil work and is innocent in the eyes of God and probably hasn't worked against God or nature.

Answer 2

1

Answer 3

Well, the lists in the Bible vary—there are no two identical lists! Gen. 49: Reuben, Simeon and Levi, Judah, Zebulun, Issachar, Dan, Gad, Asher, Naphtali, Joseph, Benjamin Numbers 1: Reuben, Simeon, Judah, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph (Ephraim, Manasseh), Benjamin, Dan, Asher, Gad, Naphtali Ezekiel 48: Dan, Asher, Naphtali, Manasseh, Reuben, Judah, Levites (sons of Zadok), Benjamin, Simeon, Issachar, Zebulun, Gad Revelation 7: Judah, Reuben, Gad, Asher, Naphtali, Manasseh, Simeon, Levi, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph, Benjamin The reason for this is sometimes the descendants down the line were named rather than the original person. They are all still considered by Jewish authorities to be literal lists (take a list of the names from Revelation to a local Rabbi to confirm). Why might Ephraim not be specifically mentioned in Revelation (even though Joseph is, so that tribe is still covered)? That answer may be found in Isaiah 7:8: “"For the head of Aram is Damascus and the head of Damascus is Rezin (now within another 65 years Ephraim will be shattered, {so that it is} NO LONGER A PEOPLE).” Also see Hosea 4:17: "Ephraim is joined to idols; Let him alone." (& Hos. 7:1-16) -- v. 13 says, "Destruction is theirs, for they have rebelled against Me!" Why might Dan not specifically be included? It could be because Judas was from the tribe of Dan. Acts 1:16 says, “Brethren, the Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit foretold by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus.” That can be followed to Psalm 109:8-13: “Let his days be few; Let another take his office…LET HIS POSTERITY BE CUT OFF; IN A FOLLOWING GENERATION LET THEIR NAME BE BLOTTED OUT.” Or the answer could be found in Judges 17:1-18:31, where we are told the Danites turned to idol worship and Amos 8:11-14, which says, "They will fall and not rise again." I could be off target here, but I do feel like it's a pretty good, educated guess taking these Scriptures into consideration.

Answer 4

Well Sister Warrior; Looks like I got your attention, Father God First then Me, Did you know there are 42 Original Commandments? Well Let Me Enlighten you, You must do the research to resolve any question's Ja'hova's Witnesses and Mormans or Catholic and all that Jazz have to say, In other words don't get invovled with there beliefs, Nor don't let them put you in an arguing cituation, God said remove yourself from stupidity and arguing, because you are right they are going to argue you up and down, inside and out, Like they say in the races, and there off, Let me First say the Tribes cannot in no form of earthly Fashion be Divided, even though they're two creations, I think that's what your getting too, In Genesis you will find both of them start of genesis don't past the 3rd page. When It comes to the 12 Tribes this is what other relegions and ministries and people in other Words the Devil don't want you to seek the truth, But You and I both know Father God in Heaven Said Seek and Thou Shall Find, Seek Sister Seek you're on the right Road, Move to the Head of the Class.

There is a Very Serious truth too the 144.000, it's broken up in scripture but mostly revealed thru prayer and Curious research, You are embarking on the truth of what our Father really want us too know, I hope you're ready for it, There's a scripture that say ponder and ponder until you find the truth which is in the message of Jesus and that can from Father God in Heaven, Knowing who you are In Father God is what's most Important here, And knowing what Tribe and Order That Father God said You're in is Important all is Important as the Next Phase and the Phase to come.

Father God in Heaven will not give us more than we can handle, This also implies in Truth, It's like feeding a baby a little at a time, the reason I know is because I have feed babies, no not my own I don't have any, but the priciple is still the same a little at a time. The 12 tribes now get this--Belong (((((((Directly To Father God In Heaven.))))))).

Oh no he did'nt--- Oh Yes he Did

Iv'e been giving you Information all the time in the answering of your questions a clue here and there, for Instance for God said he will show and tell you things no-one can show and tell you. Food for thought. Most Questions as yours and only a few others are of extreme Interest spiritually wise, because there're question's well the considered normall so-called spiritual people don't ask, Well I'm not Normal Neither is Jesus, Neither Is Father God in Heaven, only of the norm fits into this Sinful World, that my Father and Brother Jesus is going to destroy, ok---Burn to kill the Demon's and their Sin.

I would answer your Question on the First Fruits but not like this, I'll give you a clue, We are the First Fruits and we have a big family Spiritually and Earthly with us.

Answer 5

The two references may not be in chronological order. I think of firstfruit and being among the first born of His body by grace in righteousness. I also believe that you don't have to be perfect but God is able to save even the worst by His cleansing blood.

Eph 1: 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace 8 that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. 9 And he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10 to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment-to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ. ~(from New International Version)

Answer 6

I know that you realize that you could receive many answers to this question, all different and none of them right.So I will add this only for comfort, just in case your confused by all of the answers your going to get.Their are many today trying to interpret this book.And why not? "Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: (for the time is at hand").
1Cr 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

I believe that my favorite part of Revelations is "...Even so,come,Lord Jesus". Revelations 22:20b

Answer 7

Sandy, there is only one group of 144,000. This are Jewish believers who come to recognized Yeshua/Jesus as the Messiah. The are preachers to the nation of Israel and many will be martyred.

I can't say that I know anything more than this. The prophetic books of the Bible can be difficult to understand! But that doesn't mean they aren't interesting to get into, right?!!!

Answer 8

Jesus Christ was spiritually begotten at the time of his baptism and was resurrected from the dead to life in the spirit on Nisan 16, 33 C.E., the day of the year on which the firstfruits of the first grain crop were presented before Jehovah at the sanctuary. He is, therefore, called the firstfruits, being actually the first firstfruits to God. (1Co 15:20, 23; 1Pe 3:18) The faithful followers of Jesus Christ, his spiritual brothers, are also a firstfruits to God, but not the primary firstfruits, being similar to the second grain crop, the wheat, which was presented to God on the day of Pentecost. They number 144,000 and are called the ones “bought from among mankind as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb” and “certain firstfruits of his creatures.”—Re 14:1-4; Jas 1:18.
The apostle Paul also speaks of the faithful Jewish remnant who became the first Christians as being “firstfruits.” (Ro 11:16) The Christian Epaenetus is called “a firstfruits of Asia for Christ” (Ro 16:5), and the household of Stephanas “the firstfruits of Achaia.”—1Co 16:15.
Since the anointed Christians are begotten by the spirit as sons of God with the hope of resurrection to immortality in the heavens, they are said during their lifetime on earth to “have the firstfruits, namely, the spirit . . . while we are earnestly waiting for adoption as sons, the release from our bodies by ransom.” (Ro 8:23, 24) Paul says that he and fellow Christians with hopes of life in the spirit have “the token of what is to come, that is, the spirit,” which he also says is “a token in advance of our inheritance.
With confidence Paul proclaims: “Now Christ has been raised up from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep in death.” If Christ is a “firstfruits,” then there must also be other resurrected ones, “but each one in his own order.” Others must wait until Christ’s “presence” with Kingdom power, when the ransomer, Jesus Christ, starts to ‘make alive’ those who “are dying” or who have died because of sin inherited from Adam.—1 Cor. 15:20-23, Kingdom Interlinear.
After Christ, resurrected ‘in their own order’ will be the 144,000 anointed Kingdom heirs, who have followed in Jesus’ footsteps to the death.The apostle beautifully illustrates the death and resurrection of spirit-begotten Christians. He does this by a comparison with the death of a bare grain of wheat or any one of the rest, from which a new plant sprouts. Yes, the body “sown in corruption” is “raised up in incorruption” as a glorious spiritual body that ‘bears the image of the last Adam’—the Lord Jesus Christ.

Answer 9

"only one"

"nina" could not tell you "black from white" truthfully, she is a disfellowshipped Jehovah Witness and Apostate, the only ??? she asks are negative ones just like you have asked.

She has most of the JW's blocked because she does not want anyone to hear the truth.

To all JW's
When we answer these disfellowshipped or apostates questions, it's like writing a letter to someone, they open envelope and read what you have wrote to them, it is the same thing as talking to them.

The answers we give are the same thing, we are talking to them, and I'm sure all "JW's" know what the Apostle Paul said about Apostates & Disfellowshipped ones.

"Paul wrote that we cannot avoid them completely, ‘otherwise we would have to get out of the world.’ He directed that it was to be different, though, with “a brother” who lived like that: “Quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that [has returned to such ways], not even eating with such a man.” 1 Corinthians 5:9-11; Mark 2:13-17.

In the apostle John’s writings, we find similar counsel that emphasizes how thoroughly Christians are to avoid such ones: “Everyone that pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God, If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, never receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him. For he that says a greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works.” 2 John 9-11.

If we stop answering their ??? which in my opinion we should not be doing, I stopped several months ago, all they will receive will be stupid, nonsense answers, & probably will not receive more than a hand full of answers.

SPREAD THE WORD TO OTHERS

But the main thing here is, listening to what Paul said & doing it. From Bro. Bill

I answered the ??? with "only one" because if I did not answer, would be hearing from Yahoo.

Answer 10

There is only one set of 144,00 that will go to heaven, these scriptures only referance one another.


Addition: of course you have people who say this is "JW garble" but they fail to mention the scripture in psalms that says the meek will posess the earth or how about the other scripture in revelations chapter 7 abotu the great crowd that no man was able to number that come out of the great tribulation. so yea more then 144,00 will be save its just that they will be in heaven and the great crowd will posess the earth, why do you think God created the earth if everyone were to go to heaven? If he wanted everyone to go to heaven why not just start creation there instead of on earth.