When did getting locked in a crate turn into a "den"?

Question

No offense, but I ask all of you craters to consider this: you say your dog loves it, it's a den... A den is the modern equivilent to the small burrow or cave that the wild dog would have dug or selected for shelter and safety. Generally, such a place would have two exits. Now, I assume you have never been imprisoned, but I assure you, those who have say the experience is not pleasant. Crate sellers recommend that the crate be so small as to "not encourage the dog to go in the crate". In the old days, we used kennels, large enough for the dog to wander in. Nowadays, most people I know train their dogs to behave in the house, and for puppies, you puppy proof a room. There is no doubt about it in my mind. Caging a dog is cruel and wrong, no matter who justifies it. Even a hamster is given a large enough space to move about it. Some of you crate your dogs for a whole work day! How is being locked up in a box not much bigger than you for hours become a "safe den"???

"CALI CHICK" YOU HAVE BEEN REPORTED. MAYBE YOU SHOULD NOT COME HERE IF YOU CANNOT PROCESS AN OPINION DIFFERENT THAN YOURS WITHOUT RESORTING TO NAME CALLING, A TACTIC OF THE MENTALLY CHALLANGED.

UM, NO ONE SAID LET HIM ROAM.
I SAID PUPPY PROOF. SORRY, IT TAKES EFFORT.

open door is not the same thing as locking a dog in. open door, it is a little den, free to come and go at all times. Not a substitute for puppy proofing, training, and supervision, PERIOD.

Answer 1

Yeah, you seriously aren't going to prove anything.

Hamsters are given that much room because that is the only place it gets to go. It NEVER gets free roam in the house.

I can PROMISE you that my Golden LOVES HER DEN! It is a way for her to go relax away from the noise of the house. It gives her somewhere to privately chew on her bones. It keeps her from getting into something that is potentially dangerous while I am gone.

My terrier mix sleeps in her kennel every night. She has a huge mushy cushion in there, and she loves it. She curls up in there every night, without being asked.

I have never heard crate sellers say you should get a small crate....I've always known to get one that is big enough for your dog to stand up and turn around...AT LEAST.

And if I have to crate my girls for more than an hour, I make sure they have some sort of special toy or treat to play with while I am gone. I make sure that they don't HAVE to just sit there and sleep, even though sometimes, that's what they would prefer.

Answer 2

A crate is like any other training tool - can be a wonderful thing and can be misused.

Crates keep the dog safe from harm - if you puppy proof a room, do you pull up the carpeting and take out the electrical sockets - these are things a puppy will chew if given the chance.

I only use crates when I'm gone during the day, or if a young puppy, when I go to bed at night. Dogs should be trained to behave, however, when they are alone in the house, and a puppy, who is going to train them?

Also, consider this - you are gone to work/school/shopping, and their is an emergency in the house - an electrical fire. Someone calls 911 when they see the smoke. If the puppy is in their crate, the firemen can easily locate the crate and get the dog to safety. However, if the dog is loose in the house, they will most likely hide from the smoke, and not be found until it's too late.

Answer 3

Actually, such a place would not have two exits. Same with our ancestors' dwellings, which is why humans feel uncomfortable when their back is to a door....an intruder can not be seen and it is harder to defend oneself from a suprise attack.

One of my dogs stays in a crate. If he hates being in there, he sure fools me. He runs in wagging his tail before I leave. I leave the door open when I'm home and will find one or both of my dogs sleeping in it. Now that my boy is house trained, I extended the crate, so he has more than enough room.

Perhaps you have never owned a young lab...which is why you consider crating cruel. If I let him have free run of the house (like my other one has earned the privilage of doing,) regardless of how much dog-proofing I did (and you better believe my house is dog-proofed,) my lab would still find something to get into. As his "mother," it is my responsibility to keep him safe when I am not around...this means keeping him from possibly choking (b/c yes, he will eat anything, including the carpet and baseboards...which he has already done,) electrocuting himself (The wires are hidden, but my dog has licked the electrical outlet before....those plastic safety things just become another thing for him to eat,) and any other dangers.

Yes, he is in the crate while I am at work, but he's never in there over 8 hours and he gets plenty of exercise and more than enough time to roam the house when I can monitor. And best of all....he's still alive every day when I come home.

Answer 4

My dog does not stay in a crate anymore, but when I first adopted her from the local animal shelter she did. When I first adopted her she was not house trained, and she chewed up everything. There is such a thing as puppy proofing, which we did. But I adopted an adult American Pit Bull Terrier, and she would try to chew the couches and chairs when we were not home. So we bought a crate. Her crate was kept in our bedroom, she had her own bed and blankets in there. She did like her crate because it was HER space. It was open when we were home, and she could go in there any time she wanted, and that is where she went to relax. We would only be gone for 3-4 hours at a time, and that was when we shut the door. This was to help with potty training, and to keep her safe from ingesting pieces of furniture. Once she was trained, which really only took a few weeks, we were able to leave her crate open when we were gone. She would still sleep in there with the door open at night, or when we were gone. Now that we have had her for almost a year we just have her bed in our bedroom.

I suggest crate training to people who work, and are having a hard time with potty training, or with a dog who is chewing the furniture. I found it to be fast and effective when used properly. But the crate doesn't have to be used forever. I feel it is best used as a safe training aid.

Answer 5

I do agree that crates are being used too much and for all the wrong reasons by many folks, not all. There is a time and place when using a decent size crate is fine and appropriate.

But then I have never figured out that since we humans do use the bathroom many times a day at will---why we expect a pet to hold it forever and ever until we get home. And get upset if the pet made a mess after being shut up all day!!!!!

Crating is a short term safe way to keep a overly curious pup/dog from injuring itself, etc while the folks are away. It should not be a way of existance day in /day out. Can be a great housetraining "aid" when used along with a routine and exercise.

Answer 6

I have 2 crates sitting here in our finished basement where I'm typing. Of the 4 dogs that are sitting here with us right now, 3 are hanging out with us our 9 year old is sitting in her crate.

The door to both of the crates are open. She goes in when she wants. She chooses to sit in there.

When we are upstairs in the family room, she sits UNDER the end table. She likes being IN something. It's her thing to do.

Now, you tell me what is wrong with this? I'm not making her go in there.

When I'm at work, my 2 year old BEAVER lab pup is crated. He is crated because he is still eating anything wooden in the house - the woodwork, the legs on the tables, chairs, the baseboard on the walls. That's a tad bit dangerous for him to eat wooden things don't you think? There's no place in my home that doesn't have anything wood in it. We've tried.

He's safe in his crate with toys. The 9 year old sometimes goes and sits next to him in the crate next door. Her door is open. It's up to her.

I'd rather have the pup safe and not eating wooden things that could cause him to choke than loose. I protect him from the house and the house from him. When he is no longer acting like a beaver, I'll stop crating him. It's simple.

As for the 9 year old - it's her choice.

EDIT:
For adoptions I stress how a crate is used. As a temporary tool. Dogs should very quickly earn their way out of a crate. I only think a dog should be crated if there is a legitimate safety reason - the dog isn't trustworthy, is being house broken, is new to the home and needs a space of his or her own. I do not think they should be used as punishment or that is where the dog is "kept". That's cruel.

My other dogs will go into the crates but won't spend any time there. One will occasionally nap in one but that's about it. I will use them if a dog is sick as well.

Answer 7

No offense taken, at least by me!

In my experience, raising 4 dogs (Great Dane, Great Dane, St. Bernard, Lab / Dane mix) I do have some points to bring up, however.

I should qualify this by saying a couple of things:

1) I am a stay at home mom with 4 kids.
2) With the exception of one "used" (adopted!) dog, I have kenneled all of my dogs. (She is a GREAT dog!)

Why would I kennel if I am a SAHM? Because I need to go to the grocery....Because small children were visiting, and may be afraid or injured by a rambunctious puppy. Because at the end of the day, it's nice for your dog to "go to bed"!

I also want to clarify that I always encouraged the dog to use that space as his own. Actually, my dogs would go in there to sleep on their own -- it was their "space" in the house, the children were not allowed to bother them, and the door was open so they could exit when they were done with their nap.

My Lab/Dane mix would literally "go to bed" every time he heard the treat jar....because he knew that he would be rewarded for doing so.

I think a big part of this equation is NOT making it a punishment, but encouraging your dog to realize that it is a good space.

I understand the commitment, time and expense of having a canine friend. And I don't believe that they are a good choice for those that must be absent from home all day That doesn't mean that people won't continue to have animal companions just because they work a full time job! It's my opinion, and that and $1 will buy you a cup o' joe!

Dogs are social animals, and deserve to have a place in your pack (with you as the Alpha, of course!) where they interact with you as much as possible.

I guess I have more sympathy for the "hunting" dog who spends 300 days a year in a poop-floored outdoor kennel and an insufficient doghouse, than for any of my dogs.

Answer 8

Don't knock it until you try it. I agree with the supporters of crate training. Crating isn't a punishment. It is a safe place for the dog to be when situations arise where you cannot watch them.

When I first got my pup (6 month old labbie that is almost 9 months now), I used the crate because I had absolutely no idea what her past had been. I adopted her from a lab rescue that had gotten her from a shelter. She was picked up as a stray by animal control and was very skinny and had a bit of mange. I opted for the crate at first, because when I was at class or gone to the store or asleep at night, I didn't have to worry about her destroying things or soiling in the house or getting into something that might hurt or kill her. She never seemed to mind. She picked it up very quickly - probably a result of her shelter time, she never had a choice about going into her kennel there, she just had to. I just always give her a treat if I'm going to crate her. I say kennel and she runs straight to it - and she gets treats for pretty much everything, so it's not like that's the only time she gets a treat.

Now we still have her crate, but I only kennel her at night when we are traveling to family or friends where the new surroundings or situations may scare her. Her crate is still in our living room, but it's now just her bed, her space. The door remains open and she goes in and out at she pleases. I do still kennel her when I am going to be gone more than 7 hours during the day, but if I can get home to let her out before 7 hours, she is fine out of her kennel. Most of the time when I leave and come back, she is sitting in her open kennel waiting for me.

I have one of those great dogs that seems to know what is hers and what is not, so she isn't a chewer of my things. But I can understand people kenneling their dogs if they are destructive, have separation anxiety, or are not housetrained yet.

My dog also stays in the backyard for reasonable amounts of time, but she actually seems to prefer her crate to being left outside. The key to crating not being abuse is that your dog needs to get lots of attention and lots of time out of their crate. If you're going to crate your dog for 10 hours a day and then for 8 hours at night for the rest of their lives, then don't get a dog. But if you are going to crate your dog until they have been trained to not destroy things or not go to the bathroom in the house, then crating is great.

Crating is a personal option and if you don't want to crate, that's fine. But I am a volunteer for a rescue and many of the dogs we see at shelters or surrendered by their owners were deemed bad dogs because they dug up flower beds or chewed on shoes or furniture or could never be housebroken. These same bad dogs completely adapt to home lives when a crate comes into the equation.

Answer 9

I think you are attacking a well-proven method of house training without any backup facts at all. You are saying that you know better than most of the professional dog trainers in the world? You make yourself look less than credible here.

Read some books on dog training and dog behavior. Study, do some research, interview some dog owners and trainers, get some years of experience behind you. Come back here when you know something, not when you assume something.

By the way, my pins are all hiding in their little (crates) dens right now, having a wonderful time.

Answer 10

Do you know the rule of thumb of crates should be tall enough for your dog to be stand up and turn around? The problem of getting a huge crate is puppies can move around in the crate. As a result, the more they move, they more likely they need to go potty. It is your opinion about crating. I'm not arguing with you. However, my opinion about crating is the best method of training. My dogs go to their crates themselves during feeding time and bed time. Crating is better than the dog running loose in the house alone and ripping everything off.