Alpha vs. Submissive: What is your opinion?

Question

Alright, so this seems to be a hot topic for the evening. What are your views on the whole "alpha dog", "submissive dog" theory? (Yes, it is a theory. Anything in the dog, or even scientific, world is simply a theory).

Go nuts. I would love as much information as possible on what you think.

PLEASE refrain from using "thumbs down" ratings. I understand if someone gives a completely misinformed answer, but otherwise these are OPINIONS, not FACTS. Remember- dominance and submission is only a THEORY!

Once again, EVERYTHING in science is merely a theory. Unless dogs have specifically told you that they follow a pack order, it is all a theory. There is evidence to support the theory, yes. BUT it is still a theory.

Furthermore, there is a big difference between "wolf" theory and "dog" theory, in the same way that my domestic shorthaired feline doesn't share the same instincts with a jaguar.

Photomama- That was a very good answer, no need to apologize!

Photomama- That was a very good answer, no need to apologize!

Kkings- (Please note: I am NOT arguing with you).

Yes, it is true that most, if not all, countries operate under a set leader, and human law prevents us from overthrowing that leader, even when they seriously screw things up. Dogs, on the other hand, are more unforgiving. In the face of a mistake, a leader of a pack (this is in related to wolves) will be replaced immediately. Do we really have the best system?

Answer 1

I see it in evidence every day with my dogs. Case in point:

Scene 1: An intact male Siberian who is the "man" in his group of 6-8 dogs when they are loose in the yard. Someone has the ball, he wants the ball, he stands over them with his neck arched and they give him the ball. A young b itch in the group constantly follows him around trying to lick his muzzle, crouching, her tail between her legs.

Scene 2: When I show this dog, and bend over his shoulders to adjust his outside front leg, he grumbles at me. I have my chest over his back and my chin over his head, and he doesn't appreciate it -- that is a very *dominant* position. A low, growly "Knock it off" from me -- through gritted teeth, directly into his fuzzy black ear -- stops the grumbling. When I make direct eye contact with him, his ears flatten and his tail drops and starts to wag.

These are both examples of dominance/submission and hierarchy, and they occur every day.

It's not about enslaving the dog (or that ridiculous "Alpha Rolling" that so many people tout and abuse!), it's about being the one in charge.

Answer 2

Dogs are pack animals, they need a leader. We humans even function better with that mentality too...(do you see many countries, groups, communities, jobs, etc. w/out leaders?)

Regardless of the terms used...the human is the leader or alpha in the home. They set the rules that are for the good of the entire pack. I always equate this to my classroom. There are more than 20 children under my care during the day. If I were not the leader/alpha...it would be a mad house. (Not that I am comparing children to dogs....I'm just trying to make my point.) :)

I understand why you do not choose to use the term "alpha," because there has been a lot of negativity surrounding it....especially with that idiot Dog Whisperer telling people to do alpha rolls. However, the alpha, or leader, governs by respect....not controlling through fear. And this respect is earned when the rest of the pack is kept safe and needs/wants are met.

*Yes, you make a good point. Especially where the US is concerned...our "alpha" is certainly allowed more mistakes than any wolf pack would allow! :)

Answer 3

Everything is a theory, only atoms exist, everything else is an opinion. That is what an ancient wise Greek man said 3000 years a go. If you want to play semantics, you may, but, the fact is that pack structure does exist as Loki pointed out and that pack structure does have a leader. You may call him "Alpha" or "Boss man" or anything you like, however, the undisputed fact is that a leader does exist.
Here, in our so-called civilized society, we have taken the dog into our homes and trained him, or not, to be whatever we choose for him to be, however, that same dog is still a few thousand years of evolution in the making and you cannot take out his pack instinct and need for a leader.
The dog has made us, our families his pack and most dogs are happy being the "underdog", the one that lives in our homes on farms and helps us out with daily work maybe!!
Sometimes though, very often in my house actually, I have a dog that because of HUGE dominance issues does not want to be submissive to me. What does that make him? An Alpha type, a leader, a bossy dog maybe?
Every pack has a leader and every pack respects that leader or there will be very serious consequences.
Hope I helped!!

Answer 4

There are dogs that have a dominant personality and some that are more submissive. There are degrees of each, just as people have degrees of certain characteristics in their personalities.

Dogs do establish a pack order when there is more than one. Unlike the wolves and other wild dogs from which they descended, domestic dogs seem to include people as part of their packs. The dog or person that assumes leadership is often referred to as the "alpha."

That said, too much emphasis is placed by some people on humans "being the alpha," usally resulting in overly hash discipline or training techniques. Dogs on their own usually use subtle body language to assert their pack order. Only in the rare case of a challenge is force ever used. People should keep this mind and train dogs with gentle, quiet authority and force (never violence) should only be used when faced with a very dominant dog that directly or aggressively challenges a human.

Answer 5

Pack hierarchy was first studied in captive wolf packs. It is from these studies that most of today's myths about dogs come from. More recent studies have shown that wild wolf packs are actually families, with the 'alphas' actually being the parents. Feral dog packs operate much differently than wolf packs. They are loosely tied groupings of dogs. Dominance is just another way of defining who gets limited resources. Some dogs are willing to fight for these resources. In most cases dogs are not (otherwise we'd all be captive at our refrigerator by cujo).

The whole alpha dog thing was also perpetuated by the Monks of New Skete who made the totally ridiculous 'alpha roll over' popular. To their credit they have since admitted their mistake. Dogs do not roll each other over, a dog chooses to defuse a situation by being submissive and rolling over. Submissive dogs actually control relationships more often among dogs than more aggressive dogs do.

People think because they can force a dog to behave a certain way that they're training it.

www.fearfuldogs.com

Answer 6

My opinion:

2 leggers make the rules, no matter what size.

I could go into a bunch of theory, pack hierarchy, biblestudy and dominion over animals, darwinism and whatever else. But in the end it comes down to speciesism... and the fact that I simply believe that 2 leggers make the rules... period.

Edit: True "alpha""leader""bossman" types don't do a whole lot of overt display of power. They simply don't have to. There are far fewer dog fights when there is a clear leader... whether that be human or canine.

Answer 7

I think there is some truth to the whole "Alpha Dog" thing. You certainly want your dog to know that you are boss, however some people can take it too far. Submission does not have to mean slavery or abuse. My dog knows better than to chew on the remote or scratch up woodwork or pee on the rug. He knows that if he's got something in his mouth and I want it he better drop it. He knows better than to jump on anyone, and especially not my 2 year old daughter. He knows that the people in the house make the rules. However, some people want their dogs to fear them. If trained properly, a dog can be happily submissive. It doesn't have to be scared.

Answer 8

lots of good answers! but i don't think its a theory, how to go about getting it is, training is. there is a alpha and there are the followers...there is the goverment then there are us pee-ons. there are rules~ rules broken means a punishment. The punishment should fit the wrong deed.

I think a dog must give the 'alpha roll' not forceably rolled in to one. I'm always up for a good fight. i have worked with a few abused dogs..Once I went to take a collar of a dog i had just found 2 hours before to put the leash on him he grapped for my face..missed then went for my arm nipped it a bit. I was not about to let go of him...he would win. he fought me for a good 10 mins before giving in laying down and relaxing...next time he growled showed teeth. And i growled 'Don't Even' right back gave a tug it was over. this went on for about 3 days but he never once went for the bite again. As an owner you must be a leader. this does not mean you have to beat your dog to make it listen(it doesn't work anyway). tap on the nose for being well nosey.(not hard!) punishment for breaking my rules its never beating beating is only fear of me, my hand or an object, like my inlaws think a hot wheel track is training...when all it is fear. And scareing the crap outta the wrong dog makes 'fear biters' like the dog i said about before. it may not bite you but what about your kid or the kid down the street? some visiting who moves in an aggressive way like the reporter who got his face bit by a police dog?

I like the one post that says about the kids. And although some may not like comparing kids to dogs it is true. Every one here has seen the child acting out in the store...I always think WOW if their kid acts like that how does their dog act? chances are the same way. We are to teach our kids right and wrong. and as a mom I must be in control...my word is law and yes there is punishment for breaking rules...It not a beating...maybe a butt smack, for something REALLY bad that could hurt them more then a tap on the bum.

Honestly training dogs and making rules a real problem these days and why many dogs end up in shelters. I mean we don't have time for our kids, let alone the family dog to be trained and banlanced.

Answer 9

Dont ask is correct. It is not a theory it is a fact. Ihave 3 pitbull who can be hard headed stubborn dogs and i apply the pack leader training to them and my dogs mind better than any dogs i know. I think they are also happier becuase dogs in the wild are pack oriented and they set rules and boundries on each other and dogs in you home need this same structure to be happy. So i think if you want to have a happy dog you need to assert yourself as the pack leader and set rules for your dogs. You dont need to be mean or physical to accomplish this it is actually very simple if you read up on some good training sites.

Answer 10

this relies on the society. In united statesa. the stereotypical alpha male is the brash, loud, outgoing guy that seems to for sure boss different adult males around and be the human beings individual. women human beings choose him and adult males opt to be him. he's often in stable shape and usually a minimum of remotely extra effective looking than his friends. Intelligence is non-compulsory, occupation fulfillment varies based on preparation. usually finally ends up fat, balding and unhappily married by age 30. maximum are extra effective defined as 'Flabio' than 'Fabio'. human beings like us are outdoors the wolf %., and due to that often no longer bothered with. some women human beings choose the quiet guy or the rebellion without a reason. Many, if no longer maximum, youthful girls human beings nonetheless look to equate 'self assurance' with a guy behaving like previously-suggested 'Alpha'. In eastern society, i will inform you that those varieties of adult males are in many cases recognized as outright barbaric and usually marginalized. truly the alpha male is the guy that wears the nicest outfits, is the neatest, comes from the main nicely-to-do kinfolk and does terrific on his college front exams. no rely if the guy is outgoing or no longer isn't possibly a controversy. it truly is very actual in Japan.