Christians.. how do you feel about judging the salvation of another person who calls himself a Christian?

Question

It has been my opinion for a long time that Christians should accept what other people say about their faith at face value, and leave God to do the judging of their hearts. Recently my best friend and I were discussing a certain well known televangelist, and she said she didn't think he was saved. I told her that I didn't think we had a right to judge that, plus how can we possibly know the man's heart and motives?

What do you think? I know that scripture says 'by their fruits you shall know them'. Do you think that means we can judge a person by his fruit and say whether or not he is a Christian? (or 'real Christian' if you prefer?) or no?

What support can you give for or against?

Thanks!

Answer 1

OK, here's my 2 cents worth. We can know them by their fruits, yes. We can form any opinion we want, preferably basing it on something valid, and in the televangelist's case, since we don't know him or her personally, we should use Scriptures to help form these opinions. If one would come right out and say that they don't think so-&-so is a Christian, they would have to admit that they don't really know one way or the other, and that they could be wrong. We can make judgements based on our opinions, but we cannot judge the person and say that they are NOT saved. Who knows, maybe they aren't, but we cannot be the person that decides that for everyone else.

Besides, what would be the point in making such a judgement? The only person it matters to is the person making the judgement, and everyone else can form their own opinions.

Answer 2

Do you notice that all the examples are simple actions, following the law. You see, Christians follow the bible where it says we are no longer to live under the law, we are to live by faith. Romans 4:15-16 John 16, that the comforter will live inside believers. Only a Spirit can live inside a person. Also yes the Spirit was already there, but it was not living inside of the believers yet. So, yes the comforter is the Holy Spirit. Most importantly, Muslims don't believe who Jesus really is. Jesus is God the Son. John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Right here it says that the Word was God. The Word we know is Jesus. How can you follow someone you don't believe? Matthew 20:18-19 Jesus said.. they will condemn Him to death. And will hand him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified. On the third day He will be raised to life! The Quran denies the very words of Jesus!

Answer 3

The Bible is an ancient book that's been translated over and over, each time with variations. Yet for some reason, a lot of Christians have drawn boxes around their dogmatic pick and the verses that ***appear*** to support it. The next logical step is to pronounce anyone outside of that box not saved or not a real Christian.

As for knowing them by their fruits, I can't see that passing judgment on others is such a good fruit. Let's look to our own fruits and leave judgment in God's capable hands.

Edit: Molly has a good point. When people hold themselves out as leaders of a religion, teachers, preachers, we do need to separate the wheat from the chaff, as best we can. But that's not really what goes on here at Yahoo. We're judging each other.

Answer 4

Although I am Christian, I am also a skeptic. What a person believes is evidenced in what they do, not necessarily in what they say. There is a huge difference between "discernment" and "condemnation" although both are types of judgment. I remember the whole Jim and Tammy Faye Baker incident as well as other scandals. Yes,. God knows the heart but some of us have a gift for discernment which for those of us who have it, can not be ignored.

edit:

Now, after considering a few things and reading some of the other answers here, there are some other things to think about. Gorgeoustx's response is rather important. She is not a Christian and it would seem she views what you speak of as Christians bickering amongst themselves, which may be the case. Jesus taught that we should let the tares grow up with the wheat and let God deal with it at harvest. This is to avoid these perceptions of pettiness which is partly the intent of the tares to begin with. Pastor Art's point is also valid, the same point I was making. So, what we have here is a sort of tightrope to walk. Knowing the truth but not giving the wrong impression. We need to speak the truth in humility, something I am working on. If we all lived in a place where we suffered mild to severe persecution, my answer would be somewhat different because there would be far fewer people professing Christ if it meant their lives would be at risk.

Answer 5

Some passages of Scripture (Matthew 7) seem to forbid judging, while others (John 7:24, I Corinthians 5, Luke 12:57) clearly require it. Studying the contexts of passages that seem to forbid judging, we find that what is forbidden is not actually judging itself, but a wrong kind of judging.

Some things we cannot judge. Whether or not an other person is Christian, or whether or not the faith which he professes to have is genuine, is known only to God, and not revealed to us (I Tim. 2:19). What Christ is saying in Matthew 7 is that we are not to have a self-righteous, judgmental attitude; we are not to judge the motives of others; and we are not to judge hypocritically. We ought to judge others only after examining ourselves first.

Positively, we must judge whether the practices or teachings of others are in accordance with the law and Word of God.

To judge by using a standard other than the law and Word of God is wrong. Using the standard of God's Word, we judge sin to be sin, knowing we are right even if society accuses us of intolerance.

Answer 6

I think that it is best to stay within you realm of influence. What good does it do to make such a judgment about a televangelist who you will never meet, or if you did would never have any influence over? If he teaches or acts in opposition to what you believe to be correct, teach what you believe to be correct. You might warn that you believe so-n-so is wrong in this area, but make no judgment on his person. We are to judge acts, but we are not to judge people.

If we do not believe a person to be saved, we should help them toward that end, but those who we make our fears known to should only be those who would also help that person to that end.

I see some people who think they are saved by works. I see this as a problem, but I don't talk about them. I talk to them.

Edit:

Concerning the story above, the fact that the girl was living in sin does not mean that she wasn't saved. That was the very depiction of a person thinking that we are saved by works. A person can be saved and not act like it.

1 Cor 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Answer 7

I think that there are different kinds of "Christians." Some are in word only while others live out the Christian faith in word and deed and it's obvious to most people (Billy & Ruth Graham).
Hitler called himself a "Christian." But the man was obviously demented and influenced by demons!

I think generally speaking we don't know who is saved or who is appears to be. There are some religious fakers out there. In some places it's popular to be a Christian. And then there's some people in Africa that come for the clothes and food and "convert" so they can eat.

I heard of a pastor a few years back that gave such a powerful salvation message that he answered his own alter call after God convicted him, accepting Jesus as his Lord and Savior! People were shocked but he was changed!

Generally speaking, I don't think we really know who's saved or not saved, although we may have strong supicions one way or the other. But I think there are some people that come across our paths that are obviously not Christians.

I did have a "Pharisee" and her daughter inform me that Clay Aiken and the Christian Band "Third Day" were not Christians. She said anyone who would sing about wanting to be a rock star just couldn't be saved! She said that now her and her husband screen all "Christian" music for their kids to make sure they're REALLY Christians. I was about ready to gag for her critical, self-righteous, judgement attitude! It was one of the most "un-Christian" things I've heard in my life!

I do believe many televangelists are accused of being unsaved because they may have a "flashy" personality or are odd dressers, (I won't name any names!) or cry a lot. But we can't see in their hearts - if Jesus is there. Jesus isn't as picky as we are when it comes to saving folks! (It's like Winkey Pratney once said, "We want a ministry of resurrection but we don't want to touch the dead!")

We need to focus on our own relationships with Christ and pray for everyone that their names are written in the Lamb's book of life! When we're busy criticizing others, we're not loving them!

Answer 8

Well if someone says they are saved but are teaching a false doctrine, it is clear they are not saved. One who has Jesus, would not be walking in darkness- but would be walking in the light, in HIS truth. Yes Jesus also says we will know them by their fruits-- there are many people you just know deep down are probably not really saved, we should not voice that, but just pray for them. I mean I have often said of tv evangelists who are not saved--- but those are the ones that clearly show they are all about money and greed, and do not teach the scriptures. However the judging is left to God, you are right about that. We should never go up to someone and say "Yeah you aren't saved!" but rather we should pray for those whom we honestly feel are not saved, who we get that spiritual discernment from, whether they are walking in the truth or darkness.
Ephesians 5:11
Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.

-If someone is proclaiming to know Christ, but teaches a false doctrine and is basically drawing people into his false doctrine I believe we should expose it--- show them what the Bible says. For example when the Da Vinci Code came out, this is something that this verse above I gave pertains to- of course it was suppose to be fiction, but it still messed with the word of God- and that is not to be taken lightly.

Answer 9

Let's reverse the question, how would you feel after being fully Convinced in the LORD, turning away from old ways of living and having been healed of afflictions and then have someone judge whether your were saved or not to your face?

Answer 10

I don't feel that it is our place to judge. Only God knows the heart.
I knew of two twin early twenty girls. They were both brought up in the church. One of them had moved in with her boyfriend and was partying a little. She died in a car accident. The person who was telling me the story told me that she told the remaining twin, "at least we still have you, you're the good one, you'll go to heaven," implying that the other one went to hell.
Hearing that hurt my heart in a way that I cannot even explain. Who are we to judge? Who are we to know the heart? Only God knows the heart. How do we know that God had not been working on this girl? How do we know that she hadn't been in constant repentance? How do we know that she wasn't somehow stuck in this situation, but that God had not been with her? Who are we to say how far God's grace extends? Yes, there is a chance that she's in hell, but there's also a chance she's in heaven. God is her only judge. God only knows the heart...God only knows. God is the only one to say.
I agree that we should know them by their fruits. But how many Christians do you know that don't display perfect fruits all the time? What of the Christian in so much pain, that anger often shines through instead of kindness? What of the Christian who has anxiety problems and can't display the fruits? We all suffer, we all sin. Yet God's grace saves.
In reference to your friends judgement of the televangelist, I agree with you. We are not to judge. Pastor's live by a higher standard than the rest of us, and if they're misguiding us, that will be between he and God when he gets to heaven. But I have well learned, (due to personal experience with a hypocritical pastor) that God will use that man to get across his messege. I've sat under a pastor who later turned out to be not all that, and recieved from God exactly what I needed, what God needed to give to me. But who am I to pass judegment? I am far from without sin. And that day that I am, I will be in heaven. for this life is full of sin. And God is the only judge.