Do we all know the difference between attacking a person/group and attacking an institution/belief/idea?

Question

Considering that atheists have no institutions/beliefs/ideas that are held in common, aside from lack of belief in a deity, why are people surprised that we don't repsond favorably to personal attacks? We aren't defending an idea or institution, we have to defend:

A. Our existence ("What do atheists have to live for?")
B. Our presence ("Why are atheists here?")
C. Our ethics ("Without God, how can you know right from wrong?")
D. Our morals ("God tells us what is good/bad.")
E. Our intelligence (", because atheists should all have doctorates in Biology, Physics and Astronomy before being allowed to not believe in a deity.")

I think most of the questions asked to Christians are, if not genuinely curious, then only attacking scripture or doctrine or the church. (With the occasional exception for hypocrisy or insulting their intelligence. Yeah, I'm guilty too.)

So why do you think we're so "angry?"

(I apologize for the length.)

:-D Thanks, Jon.

Answer 1

I think much of the anger is generally misplaced, brought on by an obsession with proving/disproving a person's beliefs.


I just wanted to point something out.

I think the juxtaposition between Atheism and Christianity is a little off. Christianity expresses a positive belief(positive not in the sense of "good" by affirmative - plan of action) and doctrine. Atheism does not.

In a way, Atheists have set themselves up as a critic who is essentially unassailable in their positions because:

1.) There is no unified position to assail.
2.) There is a diversity of belief.

This causes Christians to address atheists who _do_ actually speak about the Post-God question (IE: What do you do _after_ you've done away with the idea of God).

This could be Communism, Scientific Materialism, Secular Liberal Humanism, "Rational Mysticism" a la Harris, Transhumanism etc.

However, just like the Atheists who lump all the Christians together irregardless of their beliefs, radical Christians have a tendency of doing the same.

IE: The Atheist is a Godless Communist stereotype.

On a further note - echoing the comments i once heard from people on the Philosophy forum.....perhaps people in R&S take themselves, and these questions, a bit too seriously.

Right now, in the world, there are people who are religious or non-religious who have absolutely no desire to debate the question of religion. Heck, i've met a couple who wouldn't even mind if they were wrong either way.

This is because religion/lack thereof is a component of their life - as opposed to their whole life.

Buddha himself was silent on many of the questions posed on these boards, precisely because he thought it was a trap that distorts the goal of enlightenment and cessation of suffering.

Because it results in arguments that rage across the R&S boards. ;)

Answer 2

It seems to me that religious people spend just as much time attacking atheists. Ask yourself this. Who cares? Does it really bother you that much that I am an atheist? I certainly haven't attacked anybody and don't really care what your beliefs are. As for the people out there attacking other people's beliefs, STOP IT. As for your five points:

A. My family, friends etc...
B. Nobody is here for a particular reason.
C. People can be ethical without a religion.
D. People can be moral without a religion.
We don't need a religion to know the difference between right and wrong. We don't need a book to tell us that murder or rape or kidnapping is bad. We just need a sense of humanity.
E. I would not question any persons intelligence regardless of their educational background. Religious beliefs are primarily based on faith not intelligence.

Answer 3

I do know the difference, however must disagree most of the questions asked of christians arise from genuine curiosity.
Most of them attack and ridicule christianity in an ugly and calculated way. Examples (only those are given asked by self-professed atheists):

1. when jesus took a dump how loud did he grunt, was he audible in the adjoining village?
2. jesus really did not mind being crucified as he was getting nailed regularly by the 12 apostles?
3. mary was a prostitute and either a roman soldier or a travelling salesman knocked her up?
4. was joseph pimping mary ?
5. christians are nothing but cattle that need worming?

which one of the above attacks scripture or doctrine, can you enlighten me ? or perhaps this should be written off as just innocent jokes ?

I can go on for pages, such questions are anything but *occasional*. Do you call such stuff genuine curiosity ?
Please believe me, such vicious attacks are perpetrated *far* more frequently by atheists than by christians...

I have never found genuine atheists *angry*. I found them accepting and kind. However, the kind of *questions* I mentioned above are anyting but...
BTW, since torah is the first 5 books of the bible, why don't Atheists attack Jews with equal gusto ?
perhaps because attacking Jews can be called atisemitism=bad and unacceptable?
attacking christians=the last acceptable form of bigotry ?
EDIT: BOB, thanks for proving my point, res ipsa loquitur...but you need to enroll in your local Sylvan Learning Center to improve your comprehension skills, try NOT to move your lips when you read this,

Answer 4

I guess you should consider an attack on atheists as an attack on the institution of atheism. As atheists "attack'(your word) the Scripture, certain people feel compelled to respond. Many questions posed to Christians are not very curious ,just downright silly...
Why did God create the Alvin and the Chipmunks? That question was one of the better ones.
Seriously, i feel that atheists are angry because we Christians have faith in something that some guy in a lab coat didn't attest to. It's strange how smart certain people feel they are, but would willingly accept basically anything written by a scientist and not the Words of Jesus Christ - as witnessed by many at that time..
I am not angry at atheists, i just wish that they would respect people that don't agree with them.

Answer 5

The non-theists are not known for their "high-road" approach on Y!A. The attacks on the theists have been brutal, insensitive, and immature. Why these 'rabid dog' attacks on the theists? We, too, are only human. We are clearly (if the Y!A forum is an accurate representation of society) not of a higher moral fiber just because of a lack of belief.
I'm a former R&S troll (took me a while to figure out that I was being a jackass), and I would hope that all that I offended with my inflammitory comments would forgive me.
It's not my place to judge others.
Peace to all.

Answer 6

An anxiety attack would come after a stressful situation whereby a panic attack is unpredictable and is not from a stressful situation. People often avoid places where they've had panic attacks before such as the store or school.

Answer 7

I think some ideas are in common among everybody, but how receptive and responsive people will be is in part determined by one's exposure to them.

For example, if you were beat up as a child, you might have compassion for someone you see getting bludgeoned in public, and act to assist them. If you learn through helping feed homeless people at a shelter that many of them are real human beings lost in the shuffle, you may develop compassion for them and not be so harsh to judge someone at face value whom you see pushing a shopping cart full of crap along the highway.

Specific to questions asked of Christians, I think they have a lot more to defend by the nature of their beliefs. A lot of what many Christians seem to believe in is based upon a fundamentally unreliable source (the Bible, a book maintained by human hands for centuries), and a lot of the judgements Christians (more so extremists) make often can't simply go unanswered.

They'd better be ready to justify organizing their ranks and making laws that arguably could discriminate against people for lifestyle choices, for example, because that's something which defies the "live and let live" philosophy and attacks a group for their way of life. This I think is the reason for a lot of provocation among atheists, agnostics, and others who shun religion, that some religious people think themselves not only superior, but think others are inferior and further act to ensure others are treated that way and made to bow down to belief in God, whether overtly through prayer in school or I.D., or covertly through unwritten laws that serve religious agendas.

Answer 8

I do.

We should really respect the right of people to have their beliefs. We should also give people a decent default level of respect in their own right, until they earn more respect or lose it.

However, ideas are fair game. If a belief can't stand the heat of scrutiny or critique, it probably isn't that great a belief. There should be no arficial protection around a belief solely because someone is emotionally attached to it.

Answer 9

I do not believe that insults of hypocrisy or insulting intelligence is occasional sorry. Most of the questions I have read are loaded questions and rants right from the start.

Other than that you don't need to defend anything.

Answer 10

I like length. ;)

I agree with you. I'd also add that many fundamentalists feel that they ARE their beliefs, and that their opinions about God and life and morality are what makes them them. So I suspect they're fully aware that when they attact and insult you, they are doing it personally.

The saddest and most unChristian thing I ever see here on R&S is the fundamentalists who say that they don't have to care about anybody else but the people in their little church who agree with their opinions. They only have to love their church members, so insulting and condemning you and me is nothing to them, apparently.