Again, I ask: Is the Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification accepted by the Vatican?

Question

The Top Answerer in Religion & Spirituality is imacatholic2, obviously a Catholic.

It was he that pointed me to the Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification, when I gave him best answer to my question a long time ago:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=Am9YaUfxadfKKRCkC9WY.hvty6IX;_ylv=3?qid=20071003112255AAwUkuc

I could not believe this, so I tried to confirm it by asking many Catholics. All Catholics answered that it was.

However, I have now been condemned by another Catholic as a liar for sharing this teaching. They claimed it was not accepted by the Holy See.

So, again...I implore you:
Is the Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification:

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/documents/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_31101999_cath-luth-joint-declaration_en.html

...accepted by the Vatican, the Holy See...as truth???

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Cathy:
Again, I don't know why you have to be so mean-spirited about this. I am seeking the truth. You do condemn me and accuse me. The word Satan means "accuser" and you accuse me of lying, deceiving, and trying to trick people. I don't know why you would be so mean, rather than speaking the truth in love...so that I might be brought forth from my confusion into truth. It seems here that many Catholics are still agreeing that this Declaration was accepted by the Vatican. Furthermore, the Methodists didn't even adopt it until 2006. How could they be the source of it? That doesn't make sense. I desire to know the truth, and desire others to know the truth...and in, love, am only sharing that which Catholics agreed to in 1999...that justification is by grace alone in faith alone in Jesus Christ alone.

May the Lord have mercy on your soul, and bless you with the full knowledge of His grace and love.

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Born-Again Catholic:
Honestly, I am still seeking the truth on this matter. I have narrowed it down to two options:

1) Catholicism is a dastardly evil cult that actually does have some true believers within her "clutches" - and subtly and gradually sucks the very life out of them, while leading her majority right to hell. The most subtle "imitation" of truth.

2) Catholicism is not a cult, but "men have crept in unaware" (Jude 4), false teachers, false prophets, even cohorts of Satan masquerading as angels of light...so that the "field" has become so full of tares and weeds that the truth is almost completely snuffed out. False teaching, and even contradictory teaching, has spoiled the bread - yeast has worked it way through the whole batch. But, yet there is hope for her...and God will pour out a Spirit of repentance upon her...and weed out the evil that sleeps in her own bed - remembering His promises.

I am praying, hoping, and leaning towards option 2.
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Badong:
What I, you, and all believe is of absolute eternal importance.
I am not so unloving, that I only care about myself.
I know the truth...and my lot is Heaven. Were I to die today, I would be in the glories of heaven for all eternity. This is not a question, but a truth.
As Paul said, "For me to live is Christ and to die is gain!" (Philippians 1:21)

To NOT care what others believe or think is profoundly unloving....perhaps, the most unloving a person can be. In fact, to not care is very likely indicative that that person does not know God...does not know love...and has no love...and is headed to hell.

I burst forth with love and compassion to those who don't know the truth...even by the Holy Spirit which works within me, compelled by the love of Christ that they may know Jesus Christ, and so be saved from their sins...and clothed in His righteousness.

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Answer 1

I stand by my answer that the Declaration has been approved by the Vatican. Your link goes directly to the official Vatican website. The Vatican would not post a document that it did not support.

That said, several interpretations can then be taken from the Declaration and the Catholics and Lutherans probably disagree a bit on what it means. This is not a big deal. Whenever two people get together they will disagree a bit on what anything means.

Nevertheless, the Declaration is a major step forward in bringing the disparate families of Christendom a little closer.

"The Catholic Church embraces with hope the commitment to ecumenism as a duty of the Christian conscience enlightened by faith and guided by love…Jesus himself, at the hour of his Passion, prayed 'that they may all be one' (John 17:21)." -- Pope John Paul II, Ut Unum Sint, May 25, 1995.

With love in Christ.

Answer 2

"Salvation is by grace alone through faith alone in Jesus Christ alone.

Anything other teaching is cursed."

First study what Grace is for each community. Then define what exactly "alone" means for each community.

I follow Jesus Christ through His representative on earth, the Pope and Apostles, because they are declared by Christ to lead the Christian community. Eph 2:20

Your interpretation is exactly why the Christian community must have Divinely appointed leaders. Many parts of the One Body...I am not the head, maybe a hand or foot. hee hee. Mt 28:18-20

God Bless.

Answer 3

The Joint Declaration is signed and approved by the Vatican and by the World Lutheran Federation,which includes most Lutheran denominations. Lutheran groups like the Missouri Synod and the Wisconsin Synod haqve rejected it

Answer 4

The answer is obviously yes. The question is, what will you now do with this? More selective proof-texting?

Have you determined, yet, whether we are your brothers or members of a cult (something you tossed around rather freely on the question leading to this one)? And how does the veracity/authenticity of this one document figure into that, if at all?

Answer 5

There will always be those who do question the position and beliefs of others. Is it important what others believe to you or is it important what you do believe and accept as truth?

I am just curious.

Ponder that and have a good day.

Answer 6

Yes, but there are objections on both sides as is seen in the document itself...I suppose it's standing gathering dust somewhere on a shelf.


Do read it yourself. I did it years ago.....in the footnotes there are the interesting stuff.

Goodwill.


Our faiths are much more alike than you think it's just that we don't pick the verses in the Scriptures we like most.

Answer 7

So you wish me to recant. Yes it is me that he is referring to and I did condemn (not you but) your twisting the Catholic faith.

I could really careless what imacatholic told you I have seen many many times on here that this person (iamacatholic) misunderstands and misrepresents Church teachings as I see they did one the answer to your question in link. But still I cannot and will not condone you running with doctrine and twisiting it. The point you posted "quoted" in the last Question was from the World Methodist Council as their part of the joint statement. I stand by what I said, I stand by the fact that you are attempting to twist (trick) Catholics into believe something that IS NOT taught by their Church. And that you are lying about what the Holy See believes, there is a big difference between being saved by faith and believing in Sola Fide (You are the one saying Faith Alone, not the Holy See)

The Council of Trent still stands as faith and works cooperate for justification.

Call me evil (actually you did in private email) if you wish, it does not change the facts. Nor is my condemnation from Satan as you also claimed in the email to me.

I say again as I said before NO Catholic will deny salvation is a free gift of grace from faith but it is ours not to earn but to lose. Just as No Catholic will deny salvation comes through the free gift, NO Catholic will ever say Faith Alone is enough.

"If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema" (Council of Trent, Canons on Justification, Canon 9).

"If any one saith, that man is truly absolved from his sins and justified, because he assuredly believed himself absolved and justified; or, that no one is truly justified but he who believes himself justified; and that, by this faith alone, absolution and justification are effected; let him be anathema." (Canon 14).

EDIT: iamacatholic also answered almost every question he answered in the last two day with the exact same response he gave you. look at his answers. He must have learned about this recently because he gives the same answers over and over again if you go back through his question. little more then a spamming really. Being the Top Answerer in Yahoo R&S does not mean you know religion at all.

EDITII: Satan has never just meant accusuer in modern Christianity, Satan is and has always been an evil adversary, Satan by it's hebrew definition means adversary (which is your opinion of all Catholics) and to you it would be evil since you used that word to me in private email.

Second if you mean Satan as the "the accuser" (about 3 passages in all of the bible so an obscure reference I doubt you would understand. You are meaning that I sit on the side of God and my job is to make you break ("the accuser" was like God's mouth piece, forcing people to give up their illusions, I can accept that, but it is not what you meant. Like witht he JDDJ you are backsliding to save face because you have been proved wrong time and time again.

In regards to iamcatholic2 this is another example of what I mean misunderstand the JDDJ IS NOT a major document, IT is not a proglamation, or dogmatic Constitution, it is Not an encylical, it is not a Bull, it is not from a Council, it is not counciliar code of Canon Law, it is not even a Apostolic exhortion (the lowest level there is).

Common Declaration have NO authority in the ordinary Magisterium, no teaching authority, no status level within the Church.

And misrepresenting by calling it a major step and going along with twisting it into Sola Fide. I you want major declarations read Lumen Gentium or Nostra Aetate, those are the HIGHEST level of authroity and asserts again we have not and will not ever, EVER change our position of Sola Fide.

You have been proven wrong, time and time again by Catholics. Admit it your an ex Catholic who hates the Church who wants to draw people away and is willing to twist the truth to do it.

And for some reason iamcatholic is willing to let you, encourage and promote your agenda on this matter, which makes them NOT Catholic and according the Council of Trent an athema, an automatically excommunicated (iamcatholic, note the last sentence of the canon).

Can. 11. If anyone says that faith alone is a sufficient preparation for receiving the sacrament of the most Holy Eucharist, let him be anathema. . . . sacramental confession. . . must necessarily be made beforehand by those whose conscience is burdened with mortal sin, however contrite they may consider themselves. Moreover, if anyone shall presume to teach, preach or obstinately assert, or in public disputation defend the contrary, he shall be eo ipso excommunicated.


May the Lord have Mercy on you too Chad for bearing false witness.