If Martin Luther were alive today, would he still be excommunicated by the Roman Catholic Church?

Question

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Given the fairly recent Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification (1999), where Catholics now state they agree with the basic core of what Luther proclaimed:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Declaration_on_the_Doctrine_of_Justification

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/documents/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_31101999_cath-luth-joint-declaration_en.html

Do you (as a Catholic or as a Protestant) believe that if Martin Luther were alive today, and teaching the same exact thing he taught then...would he be excommunicated by the Roman Catholic Church?

Why or why not?

And if not...

And if the Catholic Church was the same then as it is today...would this have saved the body of Christ from being fragmented into all the denominations?

("If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, would we all have a wonderful Christmas?")

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Sorry for the confusion, but...uh:
Martin Luther:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_luther
Is not...
Martin Luther King, Jr.:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_luther_king

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Answer 1

If
1. Luther were alive today, and
2. felt satisfied with current positions of the Catholic Church (CC) on his 95 thesis,

I think he would move on to address other issues the CC has and then would be excommulgated after a few years of debate on Luther's thesis number 96 to 191.

Answer 2

I must agree with Father K.

Fr. Martin was a little less tact-full than he should have been, but the Roman Church also acted more like a hardassed dictatorship than the loving caring body of Christ that they profess to be.

We would probably still accept Papal authority, but would practice and worship as either a "Lutheran Rite, or Lutheran Usage", but still under Rome as are the Eastern Rite, and the Anglican Usage Congregations.

Those who have answered that Luther Excommunicated himself have obviously never read the "Augsburg Confession" which was a document ascribed to by both Clergy and the ruling class that followed Luther. This document was intended to re-establish unity with Rome, and maintain it.

St. Francis was just as radical, but in a different way, he approached the Pope of his day (who was a compassionate Pastor) with humility. The Franciscans are alive and well within Rome to this day. Some groups of Franciscans are way more liberal (they almost act like Unitarians) than us confessional Lutherans.

Curry Cat is correct when she says we are neither Protestant or Roman Catholic, but we ARE catholic!

Your friend in Christ.

Mark

Correction: I am sorry, for the error, I did truly wish to draw attention to the Augsburg Confession, rather than the formula of Concord. Thanks Anonymous Lutheran for drawing this error to my attention.

Mark

Addendum:

It would seem that some of the signatories of the joint declaration have backed away somewhat from what they signed. Among these are the Roman Catholics, the Non-confessional Lutherans, and the Methodists.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Answer 3

I am am Evangelisch (Lutheran), not Protestant or Catholic, but catholic, and I believe that if Luther were alive today (meaning there was no Reformation?), he may not get excommunicated because I don't think that the Catholic church does that to much anymore, (more the shame, whatever happened to loving church discipline?) but he would probably be leading a radically different kind of Catholic congregation, and at least one of his congregants would be inspired to break off and create a new church. It's all conjecture, though, right?

Answer 4

No. The Roman Church would not excommunicate Luther today. The 10 people who have been excommunicated by the church since 2000 were not done so on the same kind of theological grounds as Luther. There are many within the Roman Church today who criticize Vatican rulings and have not been given the ultimate punishment that the Church can give.

Answer 5

Protestant religions seem kind of empty and soulless, yet angry and ridiculous at the same time. Calvin claimed the road to hell is paved with the skulls of unbaptized infants. Yet, Luther knew accumulation of wealth and selling of heavenly dividends was wrong and was able to affect change. I may be wrong but all prodestants are derived from Luthers break after the 95 theses. The real break from Rome needs to come from the AMERICAN Catholic Church. They allow married clergy birth control and other modern reforms while keeping the fundamental catholic ceremonies.

Answer 6

the main point of Luther's argument was the sufficiency of Christ's death on the cross for the forgiveness of all the sins of His and indulgences. These go hand in hand. If you believe in Christ's total sufficient work, there would be no need for indulgences, purgatory, confession, the mass, or last rites. Seems according this recent article, they haven't changed a bit:

Pope offers relief from purgatory

Pope Benedict XVI is offering relief from purgatory to Roman Catholics who travel to Lourdes over the next year, the Vatican said yesterday.

Pilgrims to the shrine in south-west France will receive "plenary indulgences" from the Pontiff, which the Church says reduce the time spent being "washed" of sin after death. The indulgences will be available from this weekend until Dec 8, 2008.

The Church teaches that people who do not go directly to heaven must spend time in purgatory, where they can be purified of residual sin. .

( www.telegraph.co.uk)

Answer 7

Luther's main reason for leaving was the doctrine of justification. He, ironically enough, would have never signed that particular document. A lot of today's Lutherans are not particularly Lutheran in there belief and practice.

Answer 8

No.

I believe that if Martin Luther were alive today he would not be excommunicated if he worked through the Catholic Church for change like occurred with Doctrine of Justification.

Martin Luther excommunicated himself by not working through the Catholic Church for the needed changes that he proposed. He pushed the changes before God allowed, thus division in the Body of Christ.

With Catholicism, we are taught to work within the Body of Christ, to correct, admonish, and seek the Truth. Not to work outside the Body of Christ without the Divine Authority of the Apostles.

It may take longer, but the discernment is better to assure accuracy of intent in the issues at hand. Individualistic approaches breed further and further division and separation.

Answer 9

Of course. He was not excommunicated for his teachings but for his disobedience. The Church has long since come into agreement with ( for example) his protests regarding the vile practice of selling indulgences. But the Church must still preserve a system of authority and those who blatantly deny it's authority are subject to excommunication. If you just want to do your own thing,any structured environment is not likely to tolerate you. His teachings don't matter,and weren't the reason for his expulsion. He was expelled for defying the authority of his superiors.

Answer 10

I don't know if he would still be excommunicated, I kind of doubt it. Martin Luther's problem wasn't so much with ideology but with corruption within the Church. I think if he knew how far distorted from Catholicism the Protestant religion has gone in some cases, he'd roll over in his grave.