God Proof 3 - Choosing to Believe?

Question

When discussing proof of God's existence, I also get a lot of talk of faith and being responsible if you choose not to believe.

First of all, the definition of faith is belief without proof, so having faith does NOT prove anything. It simply means that you believe something that you can't prove, otherwise it wouldn't be faith.

Second, you can not choose to believe something, you either believe it or you don't. You can choose to say you believe something (or don't). You can even choose to live your life by it (or not). But that doesn't mean you truly beleive it (or don't believe it). A person has no choice in whether or not they TRULY believe. Therefore, how can one be responsible for their faith or lack thereof?

Answer 1

until one has an actual experience with God and the Spirit ... there is no words that will explain it to a person logically ...

Answer 2

"...the definition of faith is belief without proof..."

This is false.

"...you can not choose to believe something..."

This is true and the point well-taken, though the connection between belief and volition is way complicated, and not clearly worked out. For example, your spouse commits adultery, say, and you have to change your beliefs about him or her. That process seems to involve one's volition, but in what ways is not at all clear to me.

It is important to keep in mind that guilt or innocence and the inability to choose to believe are not connected. One can be guilty of breaking a law even though one does not know the law (and, hence, could not be said to believe it). Moreover, there are a number of situations where one can be held culpable because one should have known "X" even though one did not actually know "X".

This is the essence of Augustine's argument against the detractors of the faith in his time. Augustine argued that given the philosophical belief set of the time --largely from Plato-- one should have known god existed and had certain attributes precisely because (according to Augustine) that is exactly what being a Platonist commits one to believing. To be a Platonist --actually a neo-Platonist-- is to be committed to a certain set of beliefs even if one does not know that.

HTH

Charles

Answer 3

Very interesting question. But it seems you are on a quest you Will never complete. The answer is simple enough for the believer.

First, God does not need to prove Himself to you or anyone else, and no man can prove Him for you. God does, however, reveal Himself to those He chooses as His children.
I hope this doesn't make you feel left out, but you've been looking in all the wrong places.

Answer 4

First of all, your definition of faith is incorrect. Again, you are pulling out arguments from the guy at Burger King instead of going to the primary sources. A good Greek to English dictionary can help you out on the definition of faith (see "pistis").

Second, how much do you think you believe because you emphatically know it to be true? Do you have any idea how much you believe based on hearsay or wishful thinking? Take an inventory of what you assume to be true. How much of it have you personally validated? You choose to believe that Abraham Lincoln really existed; you choose to believe that there is a planet (or moon, I suppose) called Pluto; you choose to believe that there are fish at the bottom of the Pacific Ocean; you choose to believe that the Mongols ruled Medieval China. You don't know any of those things - you choose to believe them because your socical structure tells you that those are rational beliefs based on evidence that you have not verified.

Third, this entire argument is, again, not found in the traditional canon of Christian (or theistic) apologetics.

Answer 5

Interesting.

I am not sure that belief is beyond our control.

Prior to education, belief can be placed in superstition or stories.

Children do believe in Santa in many cases, and find it very difficult to rid themselves of that belief. People wouldn't go through a period of loss, if belief was beyond our control.

I agree that if you require tangible evidence for belief, it is difficult to accept faith based doctrine, but some people have the ability to ignore or philosophically discount that need.

Answer 6

To believe or not to believe that is the ? The only way a person can truly see and believe is through the person who is trying to witness to them. That person may be the only Bible that they read. We are to walk and talk as an example of Jesus everyday.

Answer 7

You make a really good point.
The word of God says that He gave everyone the same amount of faith; it is left entirely up to His creation as to how they used it, and what they apply it to.

Answer 8

"Try and penetrate with our limited means the secrets of nature and you will find that, behind all the discernable laws and connections, there remains something subtle, intangible and inexplicable. Veneration for this force that is beyond anything that we can comprehend is my religion. To that extent I am, in fact, religious." Einstein.

Answer 9

In other words, what you are trying to say, that people should not be answerable about their faith, because they didn't choose to have it, they just do or don't.
I understand and more or less agree with you.

Answer 10

I'm sorry - but this is just atheist talk. Pointing out the obvious isn't enough to get through to Christians. You're going to have spell it out, in detailed step by step pieces that they can handle.

Answer 11

Fallacy: non sequiter
Fallacy: post hoc ergo propter hoc