Is the final authority for faith the Bible or the Church?

Question

The biblical Canon came about out of necessity because of the growing problem of heresies within the Church. It became necessary to decide not only what books were inspired by God but which books in the New Testament were suitable for instruction of the faithful. It is undisputable that by this time the Septuagint had been fully accepted by the Christian Church as we see by the quoting from it by Jesus, the apostles and by the early Church fathers.

In the early centuries of the Church there were many different writings circulating in the various congregations of the Church. Most of these writings never ..........
http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-S6YMuFYyaa9ESBoW5DFwEjL_HhqA

Pastor Art,

Do you just make up history when convenient or do you have a source you go to that does it for you?

Jesus and the apostles quoted from the Septuagint and that is proof enough for me. The fact that Christians have accepted the Septuagint for 2000 years is further proof. The Protestants have only been hating Christ's Church since the sixteenth century when they removed the books they did not like, adopting the Pharisaical Canon instead of the Christian Canon of Scriptures.

Answer 1

If the Bible was to be the sole authority of the Church, shouldn't the Founder have written down His Own teachings? Shouldn't He have at least stated something similar to the following: "the written works of My disciples will be the authority upon which My Church is based?"
Didn't Jesus Christ with His own mouth instruct His disciples to "write down" His teachings? No. With the possible exception of the Book of Revelation (Apocalypse) by St. John the Apostle, Jesus Christ gives no such instructions to any of His disciples or Apostles. In fact, only the Apostles Sts. Peter, John, James, Jude and Matthew were inspired by the Holy Spirit to write Scripture. Why were the other seven not inspired of the Holy Spirit to "write" if the "written" Word of God is the ONLY authority to be followed in the Christian religion?
Does the Bible state It is the sole or final authority of Christianity? No. Neither this statement nor anything even close to it appears anywhere in the New Testament. In fact, Christ said that the Church is to resolve disputes among Christians, not Scripture (Matthew 18:17).


To have the Bible as the only and sole authority of Christianity is to invite chaos into His Church. There are at least 5 Protestant denominations created every year based on a different interpretation of the Bible. Theoretically, anyone who owns a Bible can create their own denomination based on their own interpretation of Scripture. Taken to its logical conclusion, chaos is what happens when the doctrine of "Sola Scriptura" is applied. And Christ stated "A tree is recognized by its fruit" (Matthew 12:33) and the doctrine of Sola Scriptura produces "bad fruit" (disunity, confusion and separation).
The Bible Itself never states that It is the sole and only authority of Christianity. The word "Bible" is not even mentioned in Scripture. However, I totally agree that It is one of the authorities in Christianity, but where does It state that It alone is the only authority?
Protestants claim the Bible is the only rule of faith, meaning that it contains all of the material one needs for theology and that this material is sufficiently clear that one does not need apostolic tradition or the Church’s magisterium (teaching authority) to help one understand it. In the Protestant view, the whole of Christian truth is found within the Bible’s pages. Anything extraneous to the Bible is simply non-authoritative, unnecessary, or wrong—and may well hinder one in coming to God.

Catholics, on the other hand, recognize that the Bible does not endorse this view and that, in fact, it is repudiated in Scripture. The true "rule of faith"—as expressed in the Bible itself—is Scripture plus apostolic tradition, as manifested in the living teaching authority of the Catholic Church, to which were entrusted the oral teachings of Jesus and the apostles, along with the authority to interpret Scripture correctly.

2 Timothy 3:16–17 is Paul laying down a guideline for Timothy to make use of Scripture and tradition in his ministry as a bishop. Paul says, "But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; and that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God (Greek: theopneustos = "God-breathed"), and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works" (2 Tim. 3:14–17). In verse 14, Timothy is initially exhorted to hold to the oral teachings—the traditions—that he received from the apostle Paul. This echoes Paul’s reminder of the value of oral tradition in 1:13–14, "Follow the pattern of the sound words which you have heard from me, in the faith and love which are in Christ Jesus; guard the truth that has been entrusted to you by the Holy Spirit who dwells within us" (RSV), and ". . . what you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also" (2:2). Here Paul refers exclusively to oral teaching and reminds Timothy to follow that as the "pattern" for his own teaching (1:13). Only after this is Scripture mentioned as "profitable" for Timothy’s ministry.

Answer 2

Absolutely not! The Bible is not and was never intended to be our final authority for Christians. The final authority is what the Bible itself states as the "pillar and foundation of truth," (1 Timothy 3:15) which is the Church. The fundamentalist Protestants always make the bogus claim that the Bible is their final authority, but the ironic thing is this: when faced with this question they go running scared and will back-pedal and make nameless excuses, change the subject and perform whatever defensive manuvuers they can get away with to avoid this one question - -"name the one verse in the Bible that states that Scripture is our final authority?" They CAN"T because it is NOT there. There are verses that state that scripture is good and useful, but not our authority. So, if the Bible states that the Church is our final authority, then which of the 36,000+ denominations out there do we submit to. The answer is the only Church that has lasted for 2,000 years and was built on Peter's leadership, with Chirst as the cornerstone, and that is the Holy Catholic Church. The final canon of Scripture, the Bible we know today, wasn't even put together until the 4th century (by the AUTHORITY of the Catholic Church, by the way). So, if the Bible is our one sole authority for Christians, then what authority did the Christians of the first few centuries submit to? The Bible is a very useful tool for Christians and a VERY important part of our life, and yes it is the inerrant and infallible word of God, but it is but one leg of a tri-pod. The other two legs are Tradition and the Magesterium, or leadership, of the Church. Because there are not these totally necessary things in Protestantism, that is why it has failed and why there are an increasing number of denominations worldwide -- caused by lack of leadership leading to doctrinal and theological disputes, leading to church splitting and all-out chaos. Just read the Epistles (without your "Protestant glasses" on, and you will see this plain as day).

Answer 3

Interesting, predictable, and sad to see so many protestants reflexively typing in "the Bible."

What is the Bible? A collection of books written by first-century catholic-orthodox Christians, read in the Church, selected by synods of the Catholic Church.

The final collection of books that made the cut in the New Testament was not selected by the Catholic Church until the Third Council of Carthage in 397 AD.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Testament#Canonization

This was about 360 years after the Resurrection. Know what was going on in the United States 360 years ago?

Whoops, there was no United States. The Pilgrims were still trying to keep their little colony going, and Jamestown was starting to take root in Virginia. The Declaration of Independence was more than a century into the future.

For the first 360 years of the Church, roughly from the time of the Pilgrims until last week, Christians didn't have a New Testament. How could they survive in a Bible-alone world?

The answer is, Christianity has never been a Bible-alone faith, a book religion. Jesus never planned it that way.

Jesus knew we couldn't allow people to twist his words any way they wanted. He entrusted his teachings not to a first-century book, but to an authoritative Church.

Cheers,
Bruce

Answer 4

I don't know of any ecclesial body that says that the Bible isn't the final authority and that the Church, which is subject to various definitions, is. However, the Bible is not necessarily self-explanatory, which poses the problem of who has the last word on interpreting the Bible; this is where the problem lies. The Roman Catholic Church holds that the final interpretative authority resides in the teaching office (the magisterium) of the institutional church. The Orthodox Church maintains that the final authority rests with general counsels of the whole church of which it recognizes seven. Some of the Protestant churches that came out of the Reformation of the 16th Century hold that the final authority is the individual believer.

This is rather like the United States Constitution. Everybody can read it for themselves, but Mr. Chief Justice John Marshall established the idea--not universally accepted, even today--that the U.S. Supreme Court is the final arbiter of what the Constitution means. At least since the 17th Century, nobody has been able to establish that same kind of general agreement even about what version of the Bible should be used much less who has the final authority to figure out what it means.

This is the long way about to say that the simple answer to the question you asked is "the Bible," but the answer to the question you really wanted to ask--where is the final authority for what people should believe in order to be considered properly believing Christians--is "there isn't any." That's one reason why being a good Christian isn't simple--it takes serious thought and hard work and a lifetime of asking questions if you want to be serious about your faith. Beware of people giving you simple answers, because, as the saying goes, even the Devil can quote Scripture.

Grace be unto you and peace.

Answer 5

Authority - Should the Bible be the final authority of Christianity or the Church? Well, Christ stated that the Church, NOT Scripture should be the final authority: "And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican." (Matthew 18:17) Christ did NOT state to refer to or consult Scripture for disputes and correction. He said to go to the Church as It is the final authority in Christianity. In addition, St. Paul states that the Church, NOT Scripture is "THE pillar and ground of the truth." (1 Timothy 3:15) Since the Church alone is mentioned as THE pillar of truth, then It alone has the right to discern the truth and interpret Scripture. For if individuals could correctly interpret Scripture, then all interpretations would be EXACTLY THE SAME as there can only be ONE spiritual truth for the plural of the word "truth" NEVER appears in Scripture. The Church is Christ's bride (Ephesians 5:29) and has no spot, wrinkle or blemish (Ephesians 5:27). Christ also stated that the gates of hell will not prevail against His Church (Matthew 16:18) so how can the Church commit error? Individual clergy may commit sins, even popes commit sins because in the Church there are both weeds and wheat (Matthew 13:30).

"Outside the Church no one can be a martyr." - St. Pacianus of Barcelona (4th century A.D.)

Answer 6

The Church existed before the bible was recognized. The Bible is the inerrant word of God. Historical Christianity is the testimony of the work of the Holy Spirit. Therefore, there is no "final" authority. The Church, the teaching magistarium, the Bible and tradition all support each other.

Its like the legs of a table.... Which leg is the most important?

Answer 7

Simple logic dicates that Oral Teaching preceded the Written Word. The Catholic Church correctly teaches that the Word of God consists of both the written form and oral teaching.

Even if we were to assume that the earliest gospel was written by 50 AD, we must ask what did the early christian community do for 20 years after the resurrection? Nothing? Wait for Mark to complete his interviews of the Apostles and then finish writing his Gospel? That is ridiculous.

The heresy of Sola Scriptura becomes even more apparent when one considers the HISTORICAL FACT that the Canon of Scripture was not determined until the early Fourth Century AD. Again, the question arises, what did the Early Church do for 300 years? The answer lies in Sacred Tradition and Authoritative Teaching of the Church.

Answer 8

consider: all Catholic beliefs are firmly based on scripture, and there is only ONE Catholic church.

Many (if not all) Protestants, including those so-called 'Christians', claim the bible should be the sole rule of faith, and there are how many denominations of them?

CLEARLY, allowing every idiot and his brother to personally interpret scripture is NOT the way to go.

And contrary to those idiotic loud-mouths, Sacred Tradition is nothing more that the UNDERSTANDING of scripture and revelation handed down to us from Apostolic times, not anything 'invented' by the Catholic church, as so many claim.

It is this 'understanding' which we hold dear. Contrast with the non-Catholics, who now, it seems to me, have set-up their OWN interpretation of scripture, complete with 'crowns' and princely titles in heaven (the MIS-interpret St. Paul's words).

Some are actually falling into heresy, by denying the trinity, so clearly referred to in the New Testament, and clearly pre-figured in the the old!

Many have a very FALSE sense of security, in their 'assurance' of salvation, with their sola fide non-sense, when Jesus clearly said 'abide with me, lest you be cut off'.

You will never convince me that the Bible, as understood by these moron, was even MEANT to be the sole rule of faith. And yes, nowhere does the bible claim this, and their belief in self-attesting scripture is just plain FALSE.

Answer 9

If No Christ then
No giving of the Holy Spirit
then
No Church
then
No Apostolic tradition
then
No Bible(canonized OT or NT at all)

Any division of Bible ,Apostolic Tradition and Church is mistaken

Answer 10

Seems to be a misleading question. The final authority for the faith would be God, verified by the Bible and confirmed by the Church.

Answer 11

The Bible. The church changes as different men are at the helm. The Bible is the authority by which it is judged if those men are doing God's will. We judge doctrine based on the Bible and Catholics use Bible and tradition. Either way the Bible or the Bible and tradition should be the authority. If a pope started teaching a doctrine not supported by the Bible or tradition you would reject it. Thus making the Bible the authority.