How is free will NOT an illusion?

Question

In a universe where all actions are based on the results of previous actions how is human thought NOT part of that?
Sure we can do what we desire to do but we cannot decide what it is that we desire most.
An illusion of free will is experienced due to the generation of infinite behaviour from the interaction of finite-deterministic set of rules and parameters. Thus the unpredictability of the emerging behaviour from deterministic processes leads to a perception of free will, even though free will as an ontological entity does not exist.

lilmissy, what actions are not based on previous actions?

Where the hell did you get jellyfish out of that?

When I say free will I mean a will that is free of any influence be it previous experience or biological reaction in the brain.

It is indeed a question. I'm asking if anyone can scientifically back up free will.

Answer 1

I read that Einstein often quoted a philsopher who said, "A man can do what he wants but not want what he wants."

We may believe we are choosing between vanilla and chocolate, but our desires, our evolution, our memories, our neurons have already decided for us.

Answer 2

It is quite possible that everything leading up to a decision could be exactly the same regardless of the decision made. Yet people are capable of making different decisions, even with the exact same circumstances.

Example, a person walks down a road and comes to a split. Both right and left are identical other than going right or left. He or she chooses either the right or the left path. But the next time the exact same person chooses the other path. Regardless of the path chosen, the road to get there was the same and there is no difference other than right or left.

Answer 3

It has to be an illusion because of what you mention. But even if you assume that thought is not deterministic, you still have no free will. That would mean that thoughts appear from nothing or always existed. In neither of those cases are you in control of the thought.

Some people like to bring up quantum uncertainty, but that doesn't work either. Even if there is some randomness to the outcome (which I don't think there is), you still don't have free will. Your thoughts would still be determined, just not predictable.

To Satyr Prince: It's not that you can't choose. You can. But that choice is determined by the laws of physics and not by "you".

Underground man: It is indeed a useful illusion, or it would not have evolved.

Answer 4

With the advent of modern physics I'm not sure that the old deterministic model is as clear-cut as you think.

Besides that, faced with the prospect of no free will, could humanity continue to function? Even if it's an illusion, it's probably a useful, necessary illusion.

Answer 5

Results on previous actions are all pretty scientific things, that is, every time I've put the kettle on it hasn't frozen, thought on the other hand leads me to the creative forces within myself, I believe that archetypes , specific patterns of behaviour and thoughts project themselves outwardly to what ever screen available, I think that they attach themselves without our awareness to everything that we meet in the real world, and that they do this whilst we are awake or asleep, it is my belief that understanding these archetypes and the energies that we're projecting creates our own personal world, we're creators of our world and the freedoms or lack of within that world. So your mention of thought is just one of the many keys to understanding and facing these energies.
We're almost fed a false idea of what we really want and what free will is, perhaps we need to focus and be brave enough to examine our archetypes to become truley free.

Answer 6

I would NOT agree that it is "unpredictable" or that "infinite" states exist.

You're right, for free will to exist, you must go beyond our scientific understanding of the brain and even physics. Some people reach for quantum mechanics (which is really stupid on numerous levels). Others say our brain is like a spiritual antenna, getting cues from our soul.

Really, its about gods and religions not mixing with science and rationality. Once again, you must have faith.

Answer 7

Exactly.

As Underground Man mentions, it is certainly a 'useful illusion'. In most situations we should and do act as though free will exists. The illusory nature of free will is only really important when discussing those beings that would hypothetically be capable of comprehending the interaction of the finite-deterministic set of rules and parameters that cause all our behaviours, namely gods. Because all events are necessitated by previous events, an omniscient god would be able to predict any thought or action of any human who would ever exist. And an omniscient creator god would logically be responsible for those thoughts and actions.
But most of the time there's no reason not to just pretend free will exists, just like we're happy to pretend a coin flip is random because we can't predict the outcome.

Answer 8

The last time I stubbed my toes, I had a choice whether to say all the "nasty things" that I was raised around and taught by society to say, or to follow my current Christian beliefs that I should not use such language. I decided not to use the language. That was a free choice I made. So free will exist.

"Free will", in the Christian understanding, simply means that when faced with a situation, you have the ability to make moral choices, but then are responsibile for the consequences of that choice. You can have all the "finite-deterministic sets of parameters" and "emerging behavior processes" you want to bring you to the point of a decision, or to influence what you might decide. But in the end, it is still your decision. Free will.

Answer 9

We are all maniuplated to some extent in the choices we make so I'd have to agree that free will is to some extent an illusion. Our insatiable wants and desires point this out...that inability to determine why we exist...etc. So yes to some degree or other free will is an illusion. Happy Holidays!

Answer 10

Well since you would never agree to a lobotomy...you're right...free will is an illusion...not due to any spiritual or religious beliefs either...simply due to the fact that you have a brain at least as big as a worm...if you had never had any external stimuli ...then you could indeed exercise freewill unlike anything any other human has done...but then you wouldn't be human either...

Answer 11

This is beautiful sophistry, you are making the correct assertion when you state that everything is reliant on what happened previously.

The definition of Will:
"The mental faculty by which one deliberately chooses or decides upon a course of action."

Does it then go on to explain how if your decisions were influenced it is not "Will"- No you just made that bit up.

The definition of Free Will:

"The ability or discretion to choose; free choice."

You are misplacing the definitions on purpose to amplify your point. I agree with the first part of your statement but disagree with the end based purely correct use of the English language.