Mormon's since i got such a great response last time ...?

Question

Lets keep this going, I am not trying to be rude but the latest episode of south park is what is bringing on these questions


Is it true that the man who published the book of mormon
tried to disprove Joe Smith by having him re-translate a page from the plates??? which I understand he failed at doing

doesn't the fact that no one having seen the stones or the where abouts of the stones now raise some questions

it's not like it was 1000's of years ago what happened to them

thanks everyone for your answers even though they are far from plausible, if your church teaches great morales than who cares if it's beginnings are rooted in B.S.

Answer 1

You ask some good questions here.

First off, Matt Stone and Trey Parker of South Park are NOT and have never been Mormon. They are libertarian atheists. Here's a great interview with them at Reason Magazine:
http://www.reason.com/news/show/116787.html

Martin Harris was a man financing the publishing of the book. (The publisher was E.B. Grandin in Palmyra, NY). Martin's wife was skeptical about the translation and wanted to take the manuscript home to his wife. When Joseph asked God, he was told no.
Three times.
...but he let Martin take the manuscripts anyway, to be nice.
The manuscripts were lost, presumed to have been destroyed by acquaintances of Martin's wife.

Joseph was forbidden from retranslating the smaller set of plates that the first 116 pages came from and was told to continue on to the larger set. He tried to translate the smaller plates again after that edict (he was a rebellious guy in his early 20's) and was not able to get a single word.

One of the seer stones came back into the formal possession of the church in the early 20th century and is archived.

Answer 2

Rac and the Senator have both given good info......

South Park, while sometimes entertaining, may not be the most accurate source for truth - of anything.

That being said - no. Joseph never even tried to play the silly games others tried to discredit the BoM.

And again - no.
First off, let's talk about the seer stone. It seems to have been originally found by Joseph, and his brother Alvin, when they were working on Mason Chase's property in 1822. It is described as being about the size of a small hen's egg. It was composed of layers of different colors passing diagonally through it. It was very hard and smooth, perhaps from being carried in the pocket.

It is an interesting thing to note that the seer stone that Joseph had was passed on, following the translation of the Book of Mormon, to Oliver. Oliver maintained it in his possession until his death. It then passed to his wife, Elizabeth Ann Whitmer Cowdery, who gave it to Phineas Young, who was the brother of Brigham Young, who came out to Missouri where Elizabeth was at that time. Phineas took it back to Utah with him and gave it to his brother, Brigham, who then maintained it, retained it for the First Presidency; and, with the exception of a brief hiatus when it was purchased by someone else, it has remained in the possession of the First Presidency since that time and is still a part of the First Presidency's possessions.

Now, concerning the spectacles.... Perhaps the best and the longest description that we have, we get from Joseph's youngest brother, William, a member of the first Quorum of the Twelve. He later became disaffected from the Church and left it. He did not gather to Utah.

He in 1891, two years before his death, two gentlemen, Mr. Peterson and Mr. Pender, came to interview him concerning his recollections of the translation process of the Book of Mormon. They learned, among other things, about the Urim and Thummin, the breast plate. He said that a double silver bow was twisted into the shape of a figure 8, so we get the idea that looks a little bit like a pair of glasses, but a pair of glasses that look much like a figure 8. And the two stones were placed, literally, between the two rims—that is, within the rims, so as to provide the means whereby the individual, who was the seer, could look and see. These 'glasses' were connected to a breast plate in order to free the hands.

Answer 3

First, I recommend that you quit getting your information from television cartoons. It is my understanding that the writers of South Park were formerly LDS and that is why they like to pick on the church. Not a reliable source of information.
The man who published the book, E.B.Grandin, did not have a problem with what he was doing. Some enemies did steal some pages from the press room but nothing came of that episode. Joseph delivered some figures/characters to a scholar in New York for authentication purposes. The scholar said that he would translate it if the record were brought to him whereupon he was informed that the record was sealed. The scholar said he could not read a sealed work, thus fulfilling a prophecy recorded in Isaiah.
Later, Joseph challenged some of his detractors to write a revelation of their own if they did not like the ones Joseph was writing. They failed to do so, most noteably Willim E. McLellin.
As for the Urim and Thummim, they were taken into safe keeping by the angel along with the plates. God, knowing the wickedness of the people, saw fit to protect those sacred objects after their purpose had been served.
Of more interest to me would be the sword of Laban that was in the stone box with the plates and Urim and Thummim. Moroni took charge of the sword and the Liahona as well as the other items.
This is all in God's wisdom to keep these items safe.

Answer 4

I didn't see the latest episode of South Park, but I think I know what it is referencing.

Martin Harris was a relatively well-off farmer that lived near Joseph Smith. He was one of the three witnesses who saw the golden plates and also covered much of the monetary costs of publishing the Book of Mormon (but it never was published by him). But before it was published, Martin's wife wanted to see some of the translations. Marting kept bugging Joseph for them, and the Lord kept telling Joseph that he shouldn't do it. After so many times, the Lord finally consented. Marting took the manuscripts to his wife, and that is the last, historically, that they were seen. Through revelation in the Doctrine and Covenants, Joseph learned that men had obtained them and were going to alter them in some way. Then when Joseph re-translated, there would be two different accounts, which would "disprove" Joseph as a prophet. The Lord had known this would happen, and centuries earlier, He had commanded Nephi, the prophet who's writing's Joseph was translating at the time, to include two accounts. Joseph translated the second account, and never attempted to re-translate the first.

Answer 5

I think you're smart enough to know that South Park isn't the best source for religious information. (Remember how the guy who played the cook quite once they started mocking his religion).

So good on ya for asking real LDS people your questions.

I'm a little unclear on your questions, but I'll do my best. There was an episode where 116 pages of the translation were taken by people who planed to make changes in it, and then claim that Joseph Smith was a fraud when he retranslated it correctly by showing the differences in the changes they had made. But the Lord instructed Joseph Smith to not retranslate those pages at all so this couldn't happen.

The stones? Are you talking about the plates he translated from or the Urim and Thumim? Anyway there were witnesses of those - look up the testimony of the eight and three witnesses in the preface pages of the Book of Mormon for the plates, and the scribes mentioned the stones in their own personal histories.

Answer 6

Of course, if it was 1000's of years ago, one wouldn't know for sure if someone said something or not. History could be "corrected" by anyone, and who would know? History is always written by the victors.

Too many people accept the Bible without question. Why shouldn't we question the Bible? Can it not stand up to careful, serious scrutiny?

If you want PROOF, well, didn't Christ say something about it being a wicked and adulterous generation asking for a sign? Didn't Jesus tell Thomas that those who believe withOUT needing proof were more blessed than those who waited until they had the proof they wanted? What ever happened to the Holy Spirit?

Answer 7

One of the guys on South Park once dated a Mormon girl and he took the discussions and he also made Orgasmo a movie of a Mormon Missionary who becomes a porn star. It's a funny movie it's about 8 years old but very smutty.
I didn't see the latest south park, so I don't know if you're talking about the one a few years old or a new one.
It kind of ridiculed Mormons, so I didn't really like that one.
The episode to me was dumb, dumb dumb

Answer 8

I guess that I am not a good one to ask--I don't pay much attention to the silly stuff that has been said about my church--I love the good things about it, and never have occasion to dig for scandal.

I never heard that he failed at re-translating a page from the plates.

I know that he was, at some point, given plates that we not of God and soon realized this, after attempting to translating them. To me, this only proves that he was blessed with the ability to discern what was given from God and what wasn't.

The BoM is such a lovely book and really does witness of Jesus Christ--people try really hard to find evidence that it is wrong, and that is sad, b/c they are so busy hunting for mistakes that they completely miss the message of it. I have no doubt as to it's truth.

I haven't seen South Park's famous Mormon episode. I try not to watch that stuff.

Answer 9

Actually, Joeseph Smith did translate the Book of Mormon from the Gold Plates that had been written on for thousands of years! The stones do exist too. We needed to protect them so they are protected in a steel vault somewhere in the moutains somewhere underground or a cave... i don't remember wich.

Answer 10

I'm not informative as the other LDS, but South Park is not a reliable sourch for truth.

As the point about raising question, personally I believe because of the truth that was presented.
To be more exact, I love the church because of the principles it teaches. As for its history, it really is secondary.
Of course there is that confirmation from the spirit, but I doubt you are familiar with that.