Is there a very basic misunderstanding in this lecture by Stephen Hawking on the subject of Determinism?

Question

http://www.propeller.com/viewstory/2007/12/02/stephen-hawking-does-god-play-dice/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hawking.org.uk%2Flectures%2Fdice.html&frame=true

It seems like Hawking is confusing our inability to measure quantum events without interfering with the events actually being random. I think that determinism could still be true and all things are governed by consistent laws even if we don't have the ability to accuately observe quantum events at a moment in time (in an effort to predict the future), agree?

God's not playing dice just because can't watch, is my point. That's almost like "Goddidit cuz I don't get it"...

Answer 1

Bells Inequalities show that quantum randomness is quite real, and perfectly random.

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It's not a matter of whether you watch or not.

The underlying constructs are mathematically random.

Answer 2

I don't know enough about the subject, but Einstein said, "God doesn't play dice with the universe." and this quote was regarding his view of quantum mechanics. I'm betting that what you're saying is true. I would bet that no randomness truly exists.

Edit: Maybe I'll check out bells inequalities. I want to add that even if there is a randomness that still doesn't mean we have free will. It means we have a randomness.

Answer 3

I also disagree with the random universe approach, i think that the measurements are just outside our possibilities to obtain, yet a real definite value does exist even if it is inaccessible to us.

For example i have never seen any quantum experiment that has taken into account all(and i mean all) the forces involved, for example the gravitational field of a dust ball outside a cyclotron would affect a measurement, the change in the balance of forces would be almost nil yet its effect on a quantum level could be gigantic.
"The possibility of perfectly reproducing a phenomena is infinitely low or for practical purposes zero"
~me

Answer 4

If God created the space then, of course, God does not live in space, and if God created time then, of course, God does not live in time because God must be superior than what He created in order to be a god. If we call Him as God, this means we accepted Him as superior than everything and source of everything.

There is no future or past for God. The time line is there and God sees everything that happened and will happen. He doesn't have to know the exact locations and time of every particle in order to predict the future. He does not have to obey to the rule of determinism that He created. He created that physics for us and put some limitations.

If there is loss of information in universe due to black holes then it is our problem. Because we will never be able to know everything in the universe. Because we never get out of the universe. But God doesn't have to live inside the universe. There is no loss of information for God.

Here, they, the physicists, do a mistake by assuming that God is a physicist who should know physics in order to rule the universe and know the future. Those limitations, the uncertinity principle, the loss of information due the black holes, are valid for us, for those who live under space-time, the universe.

They do the usual mistake. They think that God is like themseves. They think that God makes reasoning like we do. They think that God has to know physics to be a god.

They do this mistake because they are jewish, because of their book. They had the dream that jews will learn every knowledge and will reach to the level of God so becoming like God. But they saw it clearly that it is impossible. God showed them what they are, that they are humans like every other humans and they will stay like this, forever. And this made them angry. Now they try to ignore God.

It is normal that when we think about God, we think some thing like we know, some thing like us. That is a normal behaviour for us. But we should know that it is wrong. God is always supeior than what we think about Him. That is what it means when we call him as God. God never play dice. He doesn't have to. Everything, the space-time, the universe is like less than a point for Him. Because that is what it means when we say " God created the universe".

Answer 5

Gods random number generator is "Free Will" (Translate that to mean an outside observer).

God gave us all the ability to choose, if we didn't have that ability quantum states would be static.

Answer 6

The correct answer is:

I don't know.

Quantum effects appear to be non-deterministic.

But is this because they really are non-deterministic? Or just because we do not understand the influences behind them yet?

We do not know.

Answer 7

"Stephen Hawking" as you put it is a retard, like the author of this question.