Why do you have to go to dog shows to have conformation judged on your dog?

Question

I'm wondering why you have to actually trot around a ring in a competition to have your dogs conformation judged? If Shows are all about how to tell the difference in quality dogs and less than ideal dogs why do you have to actively compete with other people for it? Why can't judges charge a fee for you to bring your dogs to them to have conformation check and approved / rated or denied based on an individual dog? I thought shows were to determine if a dog was up to the standard rather than just better than another dog. If it's only for conformation, then why are certain colors disqualified from the start? I'm not ranting,,I'm seriously wondering why a person that doesn't want to actively compete with other people can't have their dogs judged individually against the standard ,by a panel of judges,instead of against other dogs? Or is there a such thing that I just haven't heard of?

In my breed sable parti and sable is accepted in the AKC breed standard,,but not allowed to show, so that statement is not true.

Gait can be determined by a judge even if you are the only one there. Doesn't fly either.

for DP,,,if judges can so easily be bought,,they can be just as easily bought in a competition...not a valid point.

Little red hen...what you're saying is that certain judges like certain colors etc,,,and if it's up to interpretation, that means who likes what best....not a specific standard equal for all.

CF is saying that a judge cannot judge the best without compairing...that's odd

crf again,,its competition with each other,,,when it is supposed to be judging by a specific standard.. If a judge can judge to a standard,,why do they need to compair?

mighty,,,I said a panel of judges, and a rating system. passing with a 1 for instance would be barely conforms,,,passing with a 10 would be excellent,,based on several judges,,,and preferably without the owner of the dog being known.

Answer 1

There is such a thing in Europe. Dogs still go to shows, but, in order for a dog to get his papers or do a show or compete in a sport, he has to get Koered first by a breed Meister.
They have these events where people will bring their dogs and the Meister will go over them with a fine tooth comb and evaluate EVERYTHING and I mean, EVERYTHING!!!
It is a great way to get your dog tested and evaluated against the standard of the breed. Hope I helped!!

ADD: Of cource any evaluation that anyone's dog has gone through, except for the one poster here who had the REAL thing done with her dog is crap. Only that one poster knows the real deal and what constitutes good breeding dogs and good conformation and good work dogs. I am so sorry!!!!

Answer 2

I don't mean to sound like a wise*ss when I say this, but you have to go to shows to get conformation judging done, because that's where they do it. In this country, there is no other formal mechanism for having your dog evaluated. If you have a breeder in your area who shows your breed, you might get them to do an informal evaluation.
In a show, while the dogs do compete for the winner's place, the reserve, best of opposite sex, etc., a good judge will disqualify any dog that doesn't at least minimally meet the standard. If every dog entered didn't meet standard, in principle they should disqualify them all.
Disqualifying factors are defined in the breed standard. It could be color, or any of a number of other things - size, improper bite, temperament, or whatever, You can read the breed standard for any given breed to see what are the disqualifying things.
One thing that is done in other countries that isn't done here is getting a written evaluation of your dog. Sometimes, you can ask the judge to tell you the strong and weak points, but if they're busy getting ready for the next bunch of dogs, they may not have time. I think a written evaluation would be a good thing to have, and would go a long way to answering your question.
Ultimately, though, if you want to pick the best dogs on any given day, you have to put them into competition with each other.

Answer 3

It's about being the best specimin there on that given day, how close they measure up to the breed standard. If the breed standard disqualifies a certain color, then that's the choice of the breed club. In that case, if the dog is a disqualifying color, then he doesn't meet the standard. Now, if you don't want to show, and don't care about championship points, there is a way to get your dog evaluated. Find reputable breeders of your breed, contact them, strike up a conversation, and see if they'd be willing to critique your dog. I've done it in the past, and had some very nice positive experiences. If you're just wanting an opinion of how your dog measures up to the standard, that may be a way to get it.
Edit--Just because AKC will accept a color doesn't mean that the breed club does not consider it to be a disqualifying fault. Read your breed standard. If it lists that only X colors are allowed, or that your color is a disqualifying fault, then that is the rule. AKC is the registration body...that's all. They will register white boxers, white GSDs, white dobermans, yet last I heard in all of these breeds to show in conformation that is a disqualifying fault. AKC will register alaskan malamutes with blue eyes....yet it is a disqualifying fault. Says so very clearly in the breed standard. Heck, AKC would register a dog if it was green with pink eyes if both parents were AKC registered. AKC registration is not indicative of quality.

Answer 4

In the conformation ring the dogs are not judged against each other, each dog in the ring is judged against the breed standard..the judge then picks the dog that he feels most closely follows the breed standard...it has nothing really to do with one dog being better then another and everything to do with breed standard.

Some colors are disqualified because they should not be used in a breeding program for various genetic reasons and because they don't meet standard of the breed as set by the breeds parent club..conformation is about choosing the best specimans of a breed to use in a breeding program, becasue of that all criteria of the breed standard needs to be met as closely as possible.

A dog can be evaluated individually without being shown, but in order to be judged acurately for breed standard the person(s) doing the evaluating must be extremely knowledgable in the breed, must really know the breed standard . A dog that is simple being evaluated and not shown must be evaluated by at least 3 unbiased, breed knowedgable people/judges.

AKC has absolutely nothing ot do with breed standard and what or is not accepted in the show ring for colors, the breeds parent club is the governing body..AKC is only the registring body. Any color within a breed can be "registered" with AKC as long as both parents & the litter are registered with AKC, however only those colors accepted by the breeds parent club in the breed standard are allowed in the conformation show ring.

Answer 5

It's CONFORMation to the breed standard. So if a colour is not allowed, the dog would not conform to the standard.

If you did it your way.. paid a judge to judge your dog.. Well you know what is going to happen.. If the judge says someone's dog isn't quite up to par, now you have people offering the judge more money to change his mind.. Or people threatening the life of a judge cause he told someone their dog wasn't good enough. The only way to do it to keep it fair is to have it out in public and for everyone to see. No paying the judges one on one.. Judges have rules and regulations they must follow to help keep them fair, honest and impartial.
I will admit, that the dogs should be judged against the standard, rather than judged against the other dogs in the ring that day. You could easily load up the ring with a bunch of garbage and increase your odds..But it costs money to enter the show.. So it's not likely to happen often. But they should each individually be judged against the standard, rather than against one another.

Answer 6

As others have mentioned, you are only competing against other people to the extent that the judge must decide which of your dogs conform best to the standard as they see it. The judge puts up the dog s/he sees conforming closest to the standard for that breed.

DP said it well -- you are conforming to the Standard. If that standard disqualifies a color, there is a functional reason for it.

I suppose you could pay one person to come to your house and evaluate your dogs, but would you make all of your breeding decisions based on the opinions of one person? No, you'd want to hire several...and you'd probably end up spending about the same amount of money hiring them and flying them all in as you would finishing a championship on a dog. And you may not learn as much.

Others have mentioned several very valid reasons for public shows versus private evaluation...however one of my big reasons is "to see what else is out there". I don't want my entire breeding program to be in my backyard, and dog shows are an excellent way to find good outside dogs/pedigrees. They are also an excellent way to make friends. I met one of the most influential people in my life through "friend of a friend" at a dog show. She has taught me a lot about pedigrees and structure.

Never would have met her if I sat home and asked people to come evaluate my dogs.

I don't believe that dog shows are the ONLY way to evaluate the breeding quality of a dog...but all of the ones I can think of involve you getting off your own property.

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ADD:
"In my breed sable parti and sable is accepted in the AKC breed standard,,but not allowed to show, so that statement is not true."

Cockers, right?

The (American) Cocker Spaniel Standard (which is also the American Spaniel Club Standard) makes no mention of sable...
http://www.akc.org/breeds/cocker_spaniel/index.cfm

The AKC adopts the parent club's standard, as written and ratified by its membership...if sable was removed from this standard, it was by the American Spaniel Club membership, and not the AKC.

Regardless, if it's not in the standard, it doesn't go into the show ring.

Answer 7

Shows are a common venue, so it's more convenient for the judge to go to one place and have other people come to him.

It's a great idea for breeders of show dogs to see what everyone else is doing.

It's not so much a matter of checking the dog off as "good enough"; there's a standard for each breed. There are different interpretations of what the standard looks like, of course, because people are different, and so dogs need to be judged side by side.

Perhaps you need to adjust your ideas about competition. There's your dog, and the standard, and a judge. You don't have to worry about the other people at all.

Answer 8

Because the gait and stride of the dog needs to be judged as well during conformation. If your dog has a crooked gait when running around the ring, it can signify hip dysplasia or OCD. They need to verify that your dog is in full and perfect form.

Most shows are "best of breed" shows where they are judged against other dogs of similiar breed to compare and contrast the dogs to choose which one is best. It is not just about whether or not the dog meets the minimum guidelines for that specific breed but rather whether or not that specific dog is of the highest quality across the board.

Hope that helps!

Answer 9

As geekman said this exists in europe for dogs and in the use for sme livestock breeds (dairy cattle for one). With all the expected suspitons of less than objective scores (not that the show ring is allwas apolitical). I think one of the reasons is that "typely enough to breed" is not just a subejctive thing a certain % of the breed need to be bred to maintain numbers - and with any luck it should be the top x% (thereby hopfully raising the overall average) so the NEXT generation need to be a tad better to be in that top x%. without comparison this is hard to do...

PS I would not presonally support an "aproved to breed" system based soley on type. I favor preformance animals and that is not always the same comformation as win in the ring!

Answer 10

Give it a try and you will understand. It is about the dog in the ring that best suits the standard... There will never be a dog that exemplifies the standard but there will be dogs that are better than others and ones that are worse and the competition helps, sometimes, to bring those that are closer to light for potential use by others as breeding material. I don't breed to my own male - he is not the best stud dog for my b*tch so I need to see dogs that are and by seeing them AND the dogs they produce I can make informed decisions regarding the potential stud dogs that I use. The shows are venues to exhibit potential breeding animals - the judging is difficult - say you have a really nice dog with lacking angulation in the rear but otherwise really nice specimen and another of equal quality but too long of loin - the judge might decide that the lesser of two evils is the length of loin but you as a breeder can make a different decision depending up the needs that your line/b*tch might have and another judge the next day can see things differently -- also you do get an insight into the dog's behavior in situations like dog shows -- if they are total deadheads and drag around the ring like they have no energy or enthusiasm, that is something you can't assess in someone's home where they act completely different. Or a dog might be overly excited and out of control fearful in such situations but fine at home -- there are a number of things that can be seen at a competition besides simply a dog fitting to a standard or not. In certain breeds that have achieved high degrees of correctness, the competition is very difficult as only minor things are devient from the standard and in other breeds there are serious issues so you have to sort of set the bar of expectations lower as none will be close to the standard but the judge looks at what the overall breed is like and what dogs might benefit it in the long run... most good judges are also good breeders...

add: the breed survey that is mentioned is a very cursory examination and hardly equates to judging with a 'fine toothed comb' - measurements and disqualifications are assessed and that is about it and then a scenario trained test is used as an evaluation of temperament. It is fun and interesting and can be informative, as can any activity you participate in with your dog, but it is hardly a very good conformational evaluation. I have seen very poor quality specimens of breeds get the same ratings structurally as very good quality specimens (same in the character test as well) and it was obvious the poor quality dog was very poor quality -- bench front, no angulation in the rear, poor topline, lacking substance, you name it - if it was a fault the dog had it! And yet it got the same rating as a very nice specimen with good angles, solid topline, great substance and bone and while it had its faults, like all dogs, it was an overall superior example of the breed. I will say, the breed survey my ***** went through did at least have some ring of honesty in the structural evaluation as well as the character part...

btw, I have seen AKC judges dismiss without placement entire classes of dogs as well as tactfully dismissing poor representatives of the breed -- if the dog does not have a certain degree of breed type and quality, it will not be able to compete -- most judges just don't bother and just don't place or will give them minor ribbons but nothing else. I also saw that done in one of those little IABCA shows where a judge was honest and withheld from a poor quality dog and the owners just wasn't bright enough to listen and was already using him to crank out puppies in her puppy mill - ya gotta figure if your dog can't even get an IABCA championship in a weekend of shows without any problem, it needs to be neutered...