your opinions please?

Question

this is one i have been meaning to ask for some time. now i have in the past gotten into trouble with the powers that be in martial arts for my beleif that the only language a bully understands is a smack in the mouth-and you must do this from the outset. but according to some we have to "talk" to them-patronise them. apparently at school the victim has to report the bully to the headmaster etc-but who is going to look after them outside the school gates??. at work we have to report them to the boss-defend yourself and you are looking at the sack!. i would be interested especially in the opinions of my fellow instructors out there-how do you approach the rather sensitive issue of bullying??.

i see what you mean steve-i take it you live in the UK as well then.

Answer 1

i dont mean this the wrong way but there is no sensitive way to approach the issue of a bully....as you said before the only way they will listen is with a good beaten

Answer 2

I stress with my students to try to avoid it and let teachers and parents know and see if the system can not correct the problem first. Most parents also want that for their children so that does not step on their toes. If that does not work and they end up having to stand up for or defend themsleves then the only thing worse than getting into trouble for fighting is losing the fight along with it since most schools now punish both parties equally so they should always fight to win. Most parents also agree with that since they don't want their children to be continually victimized by bullies that the system sometimes can't seem to do a lot about. That includes both in and out of school. On the few occasions when a student has defended themselves the parents were happy that they did, felt that is was time that they should, and the problem was very quickly taken care of at the bully's expense. On only one of those occasions did the school attempt to punish my student and that was very quickly resolved due to the circumstances also.

I do think there is a difference here in that children have fewer options and don't have the ability to deal with the situation as well as an adult. For adults it should always go to the boss and he should be able to deal with it quick enough and if not then he and the company will be looking at a law suit in fairly short order. Adult bullies tend to be disruptive to the point where most places don't keep them for very long and also for fear of whatever else they might do.

Answer 3

Don't listen to the PC minded school employees. As you know they feel any violence is unwarranted, and the only way you will come out "unscathed" in their eyes (not mine or yours obviously) is to let the stuffing be beaten out of you and then take some sort of school action against the bullies. This is wrong in two ways, first of all you are considered an easy mark for just about everyone. Secondly, you are constantly on the defensive, even when you are in the right.

Go by your current gameplan, it is the correct one. Go on the offensive immediately, and face the school's action. Tell them you will not be a punching bag for anyone, and will not back down from someone trying to hurt you or others. Tell them you obviously don't want to be expelled, but that their philosophy is silly and not real world. Tell them to take it to the UN. (lol).

Also realize that many martial arts instructors will tell you the same thing as the school for liability reasons. Disregard this as well, they simply fear lawyers.

In your future you will be dealing with punks and bullies both verbal and physical, your approach is correct.

Answer 4

I disagree with your position. Unless you are IN an unavoidable physical assault situation, there is NO reason or sense in making it physical.

Those who like to bully and intimidate generally do so because of their own insecurity or feeling of inadequacy. They recognize their own social ineptitude and try to overcome or supress it by demanding attention and respect, rather than garnering it from willing friends and admirers. The person who resorts to violence immediately when faced with a non-physical aggressive or intimidation attempt is no better than that same bully.

I believe self-defense training (whether a systemized and curriculum based traditional martial art or a seminar at the local community center) must provide an enlightened and systematic series of concepts and tools that allows one to navigate through such difficult encounters. It offers tactics, overall strategies, tips, and ideas on how to de-escalate the situation or bring it to a resolution peacefully or at least amicabally, without the need to resort to physical violence.

Just as you teach a child how to research a topic, where to seek information, how to request help from others, how to pull informtation together to form a comprehensive picture and then build an opinion, self-defense should be predicated on the same processes. What created the situation? What is the perceived threat? Are the ways to simply avoid it? Is there assistance that can be saught to help resolve it? Is there support that can be garnered to control and mitigate it?

As any good martial arts instructor will tell you, if a situation becomes physical then you have already lost the battle and you better hope you don't lose the war. You never know what will happen when things go physical, and while you train and prepare for the worst case scenario when you may be forced to react physically - you should do everything you possibly can do to avoid that point.

Mature adults should be passing on such messages to those who have not arrived at this realization, and those who are younger with less experience. The streets of many major cities around the wolrd clearly show the stupidity of the fight first or revenge mentality. Drive by shootings, gang revenge violence, road rage etc.

If you are a martial art instructor, in my opinion you should be providing tools that help you students avoid that point when they may need to use the physical skills you've provided., They should first and foremost be focused on the mental and spiritual skills you've provided that may allow them to de-escalate any given situation or walk away from it, until the point whe they are forced to reply with those physical skills.

If you need some resources on this subject, there are plenty of people doing excellent work and providing wonderful resuorces on the subject of reduing gang violence, inhibiting bullying in schools, and diffusing prejudice in workplaces. Search the web and you'll find a wealth of information to use and apply.

Ken C
9th Dan HapMoosaKi-Do
8th Dan TaeKwonl-Do
7th Dan Yongchul-Do

Answer 5

This is a classic problem which really doesn't have a solution.

I too believe in taking direct action against a bully or threats of bodily harm to myself, but then I have a lot of explaining to do why a 'bully' has a black eye or missing teeth.

But then I tend to always first used verbal warnings against any bully to gain the moral high ground and cover-my-butt, and it never ever works. Bullies are irrational and do not listen to common sense, so you must crack them before they get the message.

The bully is one of the fundamental justifications of the martial arts and direct action. The bully will only understand violence and I've learned to speak their language.

Answer 6

Who is going to look after him outside the school gates even if he does smack the bully?These jerk offs usually have 2 or 3 bum boys who hang around him living off his tough guy image.They will jump him outside .

If it's that bad he will have to get him alone away from school and a smack in the mouth wont do it will only embarass him and make him worse .

Answer 7

That's a tough one. Usually bullying starts because of something going on in the home....there's no fixing that, as a teacher! I'm not sure the bully needs a smack in the mouth as he or she is probably receiving them daily at home. I always believed, teachers are the hardest working, underpaid, overlooked part of society! Good luck to all of you! Oh yeah....Thanks!

Answer 8

Bullies...*rolls eyes* We've had to deal with them since kindergarden, and most of us never learn how to handle them.
Use martial arts AFTER you report and try to get them to stop. A master never uses force, but there are times when he is forced to move in defense, wheretimes such is only justifiable.
Yes, talk to the bullies to try to get them to stop. Yes, report them to whoever is in charge. And avoid even seeing the person if you think it could end up in a fight. But if something is not avoidable, ignore your fear and defend yourself only enough to get the bully away from you. The best martial artist is the one who knows he could fight, but doesn't.

Answer 9

I'm with you on this. A bully must be dealt with right away. Schools can sometimes step in, but in most cases this doesn't work because the school administrator is simply bullied by the bully's parents. So the only recourse is for the bully to get his butt handed to him by the kid he preseved as weak. But we must ensure that our children don't become bullies in the process. I train all 3 of my daughters to fight, and the one thing I always instill in them is not to bulled, but don't be a bully either.

Now, the work place is a different story. We have human resource departments that deal with these kinds of things. You can't simply can't take your co-work out to the parking lot, and beat the crap out of him unless you like being unemployed. The key with the bully co-worker is that when they attempt the intial bully you have to stand up to them right away, and tell them your not going to take their crap, and if they have a problem with it then you'd be happy to go to the HR department with them to discuss it. That usually shuts them up right away, and they'll leave you alone. Of course each case is different. Also the job is a factor. You might see two factory workers going at it on the production floor, but you wouldn't necessarly see two corperate office workers getting into outside their cubicals.

In the end I always follow this saying by one of my favorite fighters, "If someone tries to impose their will upon you, then you impose your will upon them"

Answer 10

Whilst I tend to agree with you, we live in a country where 'Political Correctness' is more important than 'whats right' ...

The best I can suggest is to goad them in a non-obvious way (eg by ignoring them, turning your back on them etc) until they attack you ... make sure you have a friend nearby with a camera phone who can call the police and act as a witness of this 'unprovoked' attack ..
.. to guarantee Police attention it will be necessary to claim you have been attacked due to some racial or religious reason (if you are not a member of any identifiable minority group eg. Welsh, you can always claim to be Jewish or Muslim or (perhaps as a last resort) Gay).