If an aircraft fails to touch down on the 1st third of the runway is there any system to advise pilot of that?

Question

Apart from his own or copilots judgement. A system to do that could reduce runway overruns?
It would be relevent for shorter runways in particular. I am interested in runways where B 737s & larger aircraft land.
I suppose the system would need to issue a go around prompt or 30% or 40% of runway missed. At this point of the flight I understand that the pilot is very busy & there is not a lot of time to dither. Decisions need to be made quickly. Many pilots may resist having some control taken from them & the system could be seen as a distraction at the worst time. Could this idea have any benefit?

Answer 1

I'm sure the idea could be of some benefit. But, sadly it will more than likely not stop anything from happening. When most overruns occur when the pilot is committed to the landing. It all starts with the approach, being unstable and poorly planned, a little high..maybe fast..and could be in a variety of conditions (snow,rain,high wind,etc). I believe a system could be put into place that would call out distance remaining on the runway, but anything that would call 1/3, 1/2, last 1000 ft. will more than likely never evolve.

We currently have runway lighting indications..example: when landing at night you can have runway lighting go from white to alternating red and white...indicating the last 1000 feet remain. And we also have distance markers..they are boxed numbers..they indicate the distance in 1000's of feet remaining...Hope this helps...

Jonathan S
ATP-LRJET,HS-125
CFI/AGI

Answer 2

Bossman's right on!.....There are, for sure, visual cues to let a pilot know how far down the runway he's moved, but any pilot worth his salt should be aware of that even without the markings.....BUT.......having said that, I should mention that under certain night and low visibility conditions, even the runway markings (big white parallel stripes in graduating widths painted on both ends of the runway) and runway edge lights can be a little difficult to see..(I should also mention that practically all "instrument approach" runways used by air carriers have these runway markings and edge position lights).......as landing minimums reach "zero-zero" and autopilot accuracy, and navaid (ILS, microwave, GPS) technology increases, Bossman's got a great point......the pilot is getting a lot closer to being pushed out of the loop.....however he is STILL expected to monitor the robot and bail him out if the auto systems go haywire. Anyway, one more point...if a glide slope is being followed on a low approach, if you can at all stay fairly close to it until touchdown, that's going to put you right on the markers.....surest way to get into trouble is to stray too far off that glide slope and then try to smooth it on and wind up floating half way down the runway.....if the weather's bad, viz poor and you don't have the luxury of a glide slope, just plant her on the ground! That'll keep you on the runway and keep you eating.

Answer 3

Failing.

Answer 4

we have a system in place for that already....different colored lights at different points of length along the runway.....but as a pilot i'll promise you...we know how far down the runway we are when we touch down....and anyone that doesn't has no business being behind the controls of the aircraft....we are trained to make quick decisions based on availab;e information and you'll find whenever one of these incidents happen, there was inattention of some kind going on in the cockpit, although there have been a few related to equipment malfunctions, they are the minority of these types of incidents....i'm not giving up control of the aircraft to another automated system....we've got enough of those already, but anything that takes away from my direct control of the aircraft is never going to fly...no pun intended....or i'm never going to fly an aircraft that can take control away from me at any point based on what a computer thinks....i see no benefit giving up control of the aircraft from a competent pilot to a computer that may not have all the information it needs at that critical phase of flight......i've had to do go-arounds before, as have anyone who has ever put their feet on a set of rudder pedals...we know how far down that runway we are....i garauntee you

Answer 5

Overruns generally arent caused by 'runways being too short' nor are they caused by simply touching down too late.

Usually (for big jets) they are caused by pilots coming in too fast, landing on the WRONG runway or not factoring poor surface conditions (ice, etc). There are manual and electronic systems to prevent this from happening, but its up to the pilots to make the decisions to use these systems.

Answer 6

A mild version of this scenario was when our 737 made an approach to Heathrow, and over the roof tops, at the last moment, had to power very noisily up again for another circuit! We understand another aircraft had not taxied to the right area.
There were some grim faces and newspapers being read upside down!

Answer 7

No.

There is no regulation requiring touching down in the first third of the runway.

Precision instrument runway markings show the extent of the touchdown zone.

Runway distance remaining signs show the approximate distance remaining in thousands of feet.

Answer 8

"If it had jet engines even if it lands late the engines can shoot in both directions, back to take off and forward to slow it down and as big as they are they stop very well when it thrusts forward".

Sorry Larry, not strictly true. they do not suddenly go from forward to backward thrust. They slow down by opening slats that divert the thrust, from backward to upwards, or slightly forwards.
In the case of the 737, spoilers are deployed that cover the back of the engine, so diverting the jet thrust, upwards and downwards and slightly forward.

Answer 9

I don't know anything about flying, but it seems like once they've landed, whether it be past the first third of the runway or not, they would have trouble getting a plane as large as a 737 back into the air. So a warning would be useless. Again I don't know anything about flying, this is just what I would guess.

Answer 10

the pilots are well aware of it. they do not need any further system to tell them to goaround. they have the visual indications of the runway length remaining,

btw if it is long enough to ensure the safe goaround, then it is long enough to brake to 0 speed before overunning it.