Agnostic, Atheist, Heaven, Hell. Satan and Morals?

Question

I find myself mostly Agnostic; believing in a "god" or "being" that created the universe.

Sometimes personal, sometimes not, but always a power I cannot and will not ever understand.

Other times, mostly when I get discouraged I just get to the point where I don't care, because it really does not matter seeing as I do not believe in heaven or hell, so I need not follow and dogma or rules.

Seeing as I do not believe in Heaven or Hell, not Satan or evil powers, what, may you ask, guides me in my behavior? Where do I get my morals?

The answer goes back to being an Agnostic, they come from within me and/or from my observations of other people be it reading stories, listenign to the radio, the internet, watching movies or people in my personal life.

But couldn't that be dangerous you ask?

Not, not if I know what is "wrong" and what is "right".

How do I know?

It goes back to me and other people.

So, an Agnostic can be summed up as a Secular Humanist.

Opinions?

Answer 1

You get your morals both from the way you were brought up (ie your parents/peers and authority figures), empathy and a desire not to have something happen to you.

Morals are relative. What is deemed acceptable behaviour depends on when and where you are born.

Morals have nothing to do with religion. You're not going to start raping, murdering and stealing if you lack a belief in god and plenty of people who do believe in a god rape, murder and steal.

Of course you can decry that these people aren't true xians (or whatever) but they *do* believe a god exists.

Answer 2

I think you're describing deism, not agnosticism.

The great appeal of deism is that it provides the comfort of belonging (or the feeling that everything will come out okay in the end), yet also provides the independence from a god that watches and judges our actions.

The great problem with deism is that there is no relationship between created and Creator. It is like a father who leaves the family and never even writes. A god that doesn't get involved in His creation is not a loving god. A god that doesn't get involved in his creation also doesn't have a purpose for our lives. And so deist has to manufacture these things out of thin air. Your ideas about how you get your morals is so vague that it is out of thin air.

There is no moral authority for a deist other than within himself or herself. Our human capacity for self delusion will rationalize any behavior to fit within our self-invented standards for morality. I've read that even criminals plotting their next crime think of themselves as basically good.

Answer 3

Atheists are not without beliefs and values.



I have always been an atheist. OK, that is not completely true. I am not an atheist. I am not a believer. I am not an agnostic. I am none of these because the answer to god's existence is unimportant.

People ask what would convince me that god truly exists. While I am not sure, I am certainly open to any tangible evidence. I do not know what evidence would convince me because I believe it is impossible to prove the existence of god. What evidence would convince you that god does not exist? See the conumdrum: it is difficult to answer their question! See falsifiability (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsifiability ) for an explanation of theory and the rules of evidence.

Do not quote bible passages as evidence of god's existence. This is my standard of proof, not yours. However, if proof were proffered that convinced me god exists, I would change absolutely nothing in my life or my behavior. The existence or not of god does not matter. Like many humans I live a purposeful life and god does not add more purpose.

What if evidence were produced that convinced you god does not exist with certainty (evidence according to your standards of proof)? What would you change in your life?

- Would you stop evangelizing?
- Would you start sinning more?
- Would you stop helping those less fortunate than you?
- Would you feel that life is meaningless?

Let us examine one area Christians think about atheists. Christians seem to think non-believers hope that their good deeds will get them into heaven, should heaven really exist. The Torah (Old Testament) has a word for this: mitzvah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitzvah ). Many atheists such as myself perform mitzvahs not for the sake of getting an admission ticket into heaven, but because performing good deeds and helping those in need is the right thing to do. In other words, these are selfless acts.

Christians sometimes proffer Pascal’s Wager (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_wager ) suggesting to non-believers that they should accept Jesus (John 3:16) as some sort of insurance policy against hell, just in case it turns out god really exists. The fallacy with this line of reasoning is that faith in god for some reward or to avoid punishment is not faith at all. It is a selfish act to receive something in return for a belief. The point of religious belief so that one becomes a better person, not to receive a reward or please a spiritual being.

Even the Torah addresses sacrifices or any other act in an effort to please god as displeasing god.

So why do you believe in god? If it is to enter heaven, that is very selfish. If god, heaven, and hell do not exist, would you still perform mitzvahs and follow the Golden Rule or would you say what is the point? Mitzvahs are not meant to please god.

Many Christians also claim that only those who believe can live a moral life and those who do not believe in god have no moral compass. That implies that one lives a moral life, not because it is the right thing to do, but because god expects us to be moral. Again, the fallacy with this reasoning is that mitzvahs and morals should be followed because god or a holy book dictates rules to us and not for personal philosophical or spiritual reasons.

In summary, I have no stake in god's existence. I do not see existence of heaven or hell as a reward and punishment system. If the whole purpose of the Golden Rule preached by Jesus was to treat others and I would like to be treated, I can follow his philosophy without believing in god. What type of god would want me to pledge my fealty to him or her simply for the sake of believing or proving my allegiance? I would expect god is beyond pride and the need for some following.

For all those thumbs down votes, I ask you to examine your personal motivation for believing in god.

Why is the concept that one can perform selfless mitzvahs and possess moral values without belief in god so difficult for many Christians to comprehend?

Answer 4

I'm so tired of this morals question. Won't anybody ever get it? Empathy!!! Putting your self in someone Else's shoes. Asking yourself, How would I feel?

Answer 5

You will find the True God when you have a need that causes you to turn to Him.

"Whosever calleth upon the Name of the Lord shall be saved."