Why do people dent that the bible talks about baptisms for the dead?

Question

It talks about it in 1 Corinthians chapter 15 verse 29.

Answer 1

Out of fairness, and in response to the seemingly full-time mormon bashers, I offer this from the esteemed Mormon scholars:

Dr. Stephen Robinson, who holds a Ph.D. in Biblical Studies from Duke University and who was appointed as chairman of the Department of Ancient Scripture at Brigham Young University (BYU) in 1991:

In 1 Corinthians, Paul also refers to an early Christian practice of vicarious baptism for the dead, which is one of the rites of the LDS temples. While arguing that without the resurrection of Christ and of all mankind, faith and repentance and even his own preaching are all in vain, he asks: "Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? Why are they then baptized for the dead?" (1 Corinthians 15:29.) Scholars and theologians have proposed many different theories to try to explain this verse. Yet honest scholars, both Catholic and Protestant (even those hostile to the LDS doctrine), are forced to admit that this passage describes vicarious baptism for the dead, and that proposed alternatives are really just attempts to avoid the clear meaning of the text because of its theological implications. . . .

Both Catholic and Protestant scholars agree that the Corinthian Saints practiced baptism for the dead. Now, the argument is sometimes made that Paul must have merely tolerated an aberrant practice at Corinth, that he looked the other way because these vicarious baptisms reflected a kind of faith in Christ. There are serious problems with this view, even from a non-LDS perspective. (Are Mormons Christians?, Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, Inc., 1991, p. 98, original emphasis)

Dr. Richard Lloyd Anderson, who holds an M.A. in Greek from BYU, a J.D. from Harvard Law School, and a Ph.D. in History from the University of California at Berkeley. He is also an emeritus professor of Greek and Ancient Scripture at BYU:

If "there is no resurrection" (1 Cor. 15:12)--if "the dead rise not (1 Cor. 15:15), then the central realities fail. And Paul lists them in order: (1) Christ's own resurrection (1 Cor. 15:13); (2) the apostles integrity (1 Cor. 15:15); (3) forgiveness through Christ (1 Cor. 15:17; (4) the value of baptisms for the dead (1 Cor. 15:29); (5) the value of Paul's sacrifices and risks (1 Cor. 15:30-32). This perspective is critical in understanding baptism for the dead, for many commentators toss it aside as a local practice that Paul did not accept. Such an argument is simply near-sighted--the other four points on the above list are not only true but interlocked in Christ's plan of salvation. Baptism for the dead cannot be moved from its rightful place by skeptics' shrugs. . . .

While not understanding the practice, the best Greek scholars overwhelmingly support vicarious baptism as the only correct translation of Paul's challenge. Many translators continue to follow the "for the dead" of the King James Version. But of the six committee translations most used in this book, four have the phrasing of the Revised Standard Version: "Otherwise, what do people mean by being baptized on behalf of the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized on their behalf?". . . .

The practice of baptism for the dead is less disputed now, though its ancient application is debated. Its importance is minimized by some because it appears a single time in the scriptures, but it was a doctrine for believers and would rarely be discussed publicly--several practices of the believers appear only in the candid discussions of problems in 1 Corinthians. Others say with false learning that Paul disapproved of the practice, but putting words into his mouth is highly dangerous in a chapter where he insists time after time that he is telling God's solemn truth. Paul was most sensitive to blasphemy and false ceremonialism--of all people he would not have argued for the foundation truth of the Resurrection with a questionable example. He obviously did not feel that the principle was disharmonious with the gospel. (Understanding Paul, Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Company, 1983, pp. 126, 404-405)

Salvation For The Dead
by Elma Fugal

A distinctive doctrine of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is that the dead as well as the living may receive the gospel of Jesus Christ. Every man, woman, and child who has ever lived or who ever will live on this earth will have full opportunity, if not in this life then in the next, to embrace or reject the gospel in its purity and fulness.

When this doctrine was first taught at Nauvoo, Illinois, in 1842 (D&C 127; 128), the Prophet Joseph Smith said it was the "burden of the scriptures" and that it exhibited "the greatness of divine compassion and benevolence in the extent of the plan of human salvation" (TPJS, p. 192). It is in harmony with the Jewish idea that the family is the instrument of holiness and redemption and that the dead may need Atonement. It is also a Christian concept in the writings of Paul and Peter (see Baptism for the Dead, LDS Practice and Ancient Sources). "[It] justifies the ways of God to man, places the human family upon an equal footing, and harmonizes with every principle of righteousness, justice, and truth" (TPJS, p. 223).

The Prophet posed the dilemma resolved by the doctrine: "One dies and is buried having never heard the gospel of reconciliation; to the other the message of salvation is sent, he hears and embraces it and is made the heir of eternal life. Shall the one become the partaker of glory and the other be consigned to hopeless perdition?…Such an idea is worse than atheism" (TPJS, p. 192).

Five fundamental principles underlie LDS understanding of salvation for the dead:

1. Life is eternal. Birth does not begin life nor does death end it. In each stage of existence there are ever-higher levels of divine enlightenment and blessedness.

2. Repentance is possible in the next life as well as this one. "There is never a time when the spirit is too old to approach God. All are within the reach of pardoning mercy, who have not committed the unpardonable sin" (TPJS, p. 191).

3. The family bonds extend beyond death. The family bonds that are formed on this earth and consecrated to God by sacred covenants and ordinances are indissoluble and extend into the spirit world. "They without us cannot be made perfect—neither can we without our dead be made perfect" (D&C 128:15; Heb. 11:39-40).

4. Ordinances may be performed for the dead. Through the holy priesthood, held by the prophets in the Church, Jesus Christ has authorized mortals to receive ordinances "of salvation substitutional" [that is, by proxy] and become "instrumental in bringing multitudes of their kindred into the kingdom of God" (TPJS, p. 191).

5. Temple ordinances are not "mere signs." They are channels of the Spirit of God that enable one to be born of God in the fullest sense and to receive all the covenants and blessings of Jesus Christ. The performing of earthly ordinances by proxy for those who have died is as efficacious and vitalizing as if the deceased person had done them. That person, in turn, is free to accept or reject the ordinances in the spirit world.

In harmony with these principles, Latter-day Saints identify their ancestors through family history research, build temples, and, in behalf of their progenitors, perform the ordinances that pertain to exaltation: baptism; confirmation; ordination to the priesthood; washing and anointing; Endowment; and sealing. Thus, "we redeem our dead, and connect ourselves with our fathers which are in heaven, and seal up our dead to come forth in the first resurrection…[we] seal those who dwell on earth to those who dwell in heaven" (TPJS, pp. 337-38). This is the chain that binds the hearts of fathers and mothers to their children and the hearts of the children to their parents. And this sealing work "fulfills the mission of Elijah" (TPJS, p, 330; see also Elijah, Spirit of).

When the Twelve Apostles chosen in Joseph Smith's day were instructed to initiate these ordinances in Nauvoo in 1842, they soon recognized that it was the beginning of an immense work and that to administer all the ordinances of the gospel to the hosts of the dead was no easy task. They asked if there was some other way. The Prophet Joseph replied, "The laws of the Lord are immutable, we must act in perfect compliance with what is revealed to us. We need not expect to do this vast work for the dead in a short time. I expect it will take at least a thousand years" (Millennial Star 37:66). As of 1991 vicarious temple ordinances have been performed for more than 113 million persons. The Prophet Joseph said, "It is no more incredible that God should save the dead, than that he should raise the dead" (TPJS, p. 191).

Bibliography

Widtsoe, John A. "Fundamentals of Temple Doctrine." Utah Genealogical and Historical Magazine 13 (June 1922):129-35.

Encyclopedia of Mormonism, Vol. 3, Salvation for the Dead


@ M. Crier:
from above:
Many translators continue to follow the "for the dead" of the King James Version. But of the six committee translations most used in this book, four have the phrasing of the Revised Standard Version: "Otherwise, what do people mean by being baptized on behalf of the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized on their behalf?". .

Answer 2

To our Mormon friends, I'd like to point to a problem with the quote you posted:

"The practice of baptism for the dead is less disputed now, though its ancient application is debated. Its importance is minimized by some because it appears a single time in the scriptures, but it was a doctrine for believers and would *rarely be discussed publicly*"

This is not reasonable biblical interpretation.

Instructions and information important to God are presented plainly in scripture. They are not *rarely discussed*. There are many examples in the OT of God making the importance and details of rituals very clear. Also see the instructions for the Lord's Supper in 1 Cor 11.

If baptism of the dead was an intended ritual, God would have provided more information such as: it would have been commanded, there would be instructions for procedures, and there would more discussion of it.

The idea that 1 Cor 15:29 communicates that baptism for the dead is a critical and necessary practice is an unreasonable extrapolation. And worse, it suggests that is God unjust because he didn't make the matter clear.

I call upon you to reject such reasoning by your church.

And please don't succumb to the idea that the catholic church removed these instructions from scripture. This has been proven not possible; see various resources on christian evidences such as http://www.kenboa.org/downloads/pdf/HowAccurateIstheBible.pdf
Besides if editing was done, why skip this verse?

Pastor Art's concise explanation makes sense of passages like these.

Regards,
Scott

Answer 3

Please disregard all this mormon garbage. The answer is very simple. Do not assume that a Christian that studies to 'show themself approved before God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth' denies anything that is in the word.
I deny nothing that is in the word of God.I may deny your interpretation, or the ridiculous interpretation that the mormons have of that scripture, but not that it is there.
First, do you use a Strong's Concordance? If not, you might find one to be useful in instances such as these, and here's why:
In this particular scripture, the word "for", when you look at the meaning of it's occurance here, it is being used as a primary particle, to assign a reason (used in argument, explanation, intensification, etc., often with other particles, and, as, because, etc.).
This changes the whole context. What you may mistakenly believe this to be saying is that people are getting baptised IN PLACE OF someone that is dead, when it is actually saying that a person's REASON for getting baptised is for, or because, of a loved one that is asleep in Christ, in order to be reunited with that loved one. It is not talking about a baptism for a dead person, as this conflicts with the scripture that tells us that the dead know nothing, neither do they love, etc. Also, someone that did not live for Christ in life cannot hope to find the resurrection unto life that Christ told us of.
It is in certain instances such as this that a good thorough concordance is very useful. The misunderstanding is simply in context, nothing more.
It is a direct contradiction of what Christ taught us, to believe that one could get baptised in the place of someone that did not show faith and obedience to Christ in life, and make a difference in the outcome of that person's reward. To those that were not obedient, resurrection unto damnation (John 5:29).
Hope that answered your question.

Answer 4

The bible reference is a million Cor 15:29 the place Paul is explaining to the Corinthians that Christ fairly did resurrect and are available decrease back to existence. He makes it sparkling in verses 21-22 of a similar financial ruin. Then he asks them, in case you have not got faith interior the Resurrection then why are you baptizing for the lifeless? They have been already doing it and he replaced into asking them why they have been doing it in the event that they did no longer have faith the lifeless might upward push up. The question replaced into for sure to describe that they might desire to have faith interior the resurrection and that baptism for the lifeless replaced into practiced decrease back then. In John 3:5 we learn which you fairly prefer baptism to head into the dominion of heaven. God is a loving God and in Peter we learn that when Christ died that he went and visited those in Spirit penitentiary. a million Peter 3:19 If there replaced into no desire for those in Spirit penitentiary alongside with the thief that replaced into on the pass next to Jesus then why did he pass there to coach? in many the previous Catholic cathedrals in Europe you will locate fonts interior the basements and many assist you to comprehend that the catholic church was once in touch in this historical prepare besides.

Answer 5

Twisting 1 Corinthians 15:29 - Mormonism's Baptism for the Dead

James K. Walker

A unique teaching of Mormonism is the practice of baptizing on behalf of the dead. This is a very important belief of Mormons today. Mormon Apostle Bruce R. McConkie taught: "...the Lord has ordained baptism for the dead as the means whereby all his worthy children of all ages can become heirs of salvation in his kingdom," (Mormon Doctrine, p. 73).

In every active Mormon Temple proxy baptisms for the dead take place in which living Mormons temporarily assume the names of dead people to perform baptisms on their behalf. Mormon leaders teach that this activity was practiced by the first century Christian churches and quote 1 Corinthians 15:29 as proof (Ibid).
1 Corinthians 15:29

"Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?"

Historically, this passage has been the source of much speculation and some confusion. One second century sect, the Cataphrygians (Montanists), seem to have developed the practice of baptizing actual corpses based on a misunderstanding of this verse (see Evangelical Dictionary of Theology, edited by Walter A. Elwell, p. 119).

In order to understand this or any other Biblical passage, it is important to examine the context to understand what is being talked about.

The entire fifteenth chapter of 1 Corinthians deals with the resurrection. False teachers had infiltrated the church at Corinth, teaching "that there is no resurrection of the dead," (vs. 13).

Paul had stated that the heart of the gospel was Christ's resurrection (vs. 1-14). Christ died on the cross for man's sins, was buried, and that he rose again the third day.

To be saved one must turn from their sins and trust in, or "keep in memory" Christ's work on their behalf. Christ's historical death, burial and resurrection is the gospel.

But there were cultic leaders at Corinth that believed and taught that there was no resurrection. The whole chapter is devoted to reasons why this is a false teaching.

Reason #1: There were eye witnesses of Christ's resurrection (15:5-7);

Reason #2: If there is no resurrection, Christ has not risen (15:13, 16);

Reason #3: If there is no resurrection, Paul's preaching is in vain (15:14);

Reason #4: If there is no resurrection, their faith was in vain (15:14);

Reason #5: If there is no resurrection, Paul and the other apostles were false witnesses (15:15);

Reason #6: If there is no resurrection, the Corinthian Christians were still lost in their sins (15:17);

Reason #7: If there is no resurrection, all who have died trusting Christ have perished (15:18).

In verses 20-28, Paul explains that Christ has been raised. He is the "firstfruits" of all that will be raised and that all "enemies" including death have been subjected and conquered by Christ.

Then in verse 29, Paul points out a further reason that the resurrection is real. He says: "Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?" The apostle is pointing out an inconsistency in the practice of these false teachers. Apparently, they did not believe that the dead would rise (15:12), but they practiced proxy baptism for the dead. If the dead do not rise, why did they baptize them after death? It was a contradiction.

By carefully noticing the pronouns, one can see who was actually practicing baptism for the dead. Paul says, "...what shall they do which are baptized for the dead... why are they then baptized for the dead?" Paul did not say, "Why are you (Corinthian Christians) then baptized for the dead?" He did not say, "Why are we (the followers of Christ) then baptized for the dead?" He did not say, "Why then am I (Paul himself) then baptized for the dead?" He was asking, in effect, why these false teachers, who did not even believe in the resurrection, would want to baptize for the dead if the dead do not rise at all.

As pointed out in The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology, edited by Colin Brown: "The practice (baptism for the dead) could hardly be reconciled with the Pauline proclamation, and was cited by Paul as part of the polemic: people who deny the resurrection for the dead ought not to get baptized for the dead!" (Vol. 1, p. 147).
Baptism for the Dead and the Book of Mormon

A further problem arises with the doctrine of baptism for the dead when the Book of Mormon is examined.

The Doctrine and Covenants teaches that the Book of Mormon contains: "...the fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles and to the Jews also," (Section 20:9) It also teaches that "...this most glorious of all subjects belonging to the everlasting gospel (is) namely the baptism for the dead," (Doctrine and Covenants 128:17).

Although baptism for the dead is "the most glorious of all subjects belonging to the everlasting gospel," and the Book of Mormon contains the "fullness of the gospel," baptism for the dead cannot be found in the Book of Mormon.

Another problem with baptism for the dead teaching is that the theology taught in the Book of Mormon does not allow for this doctrine. In Alma 34:34, 35, the Book of Mormon teaches that:

"Ye cannot say, when ye are brought to that awful crisis (death), that I will repent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye cannot say this; for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world.

"For behold, if ye have procrastinated the day of your repentance even until death, behold, ye have become subjected to the spirit of the devil, and he doth seal you his; therefore, the Spirit of the Lord hath withdrawn from you, and hath no place in you, and the devil hath all power over you; and this is the final state of the wicked," (emphasis mine).

Finally, a vital companion doctrine to baptism for the dead is the practice of genealogy, or tracing one's "roots" to determine the names of dead relatives. This is practiced in Mormonism so that those dead ancestors can have temple works performed by proxy (see Mormon Doctrine, p. 308).

The Bible soundly condemns the practice of genealogy for religious purposes (1 Timothy 1:4 and Titus 3:9). The Bible teaches that there are no opportunities for salvation after death. Any doctrine that teaches otherwise is both false and dangerous. As Hebrews 9:27 proclaims: "...it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment."

Answer 6

The Bible mentions that some did it, but we are never told to do it.

The Bible tells us lots of things that people did which was wrong. We are NOT supposed to follow the bad examples.

Pastor Art

Answer 7

they take the verse out of context.

Answer 8

I dent know.