I want to dispell the myth about the NHS...?

Question

I have heard this countless times before and once again on question time last night, that the NHS would fall apart if it wasn't for immigration.

This is simply not true at all.

I am a student nurse and I know many many classes of student nurses (99% of them British born) going through the system who cannot get jobs when they graduate because of job freezes in NHS trusts.

Likewise I know many British born trainee doctors who are facing (whilst not on the same scale) the same problem now.

I am not saying that immigrant doctors and nurses do not make a contribution, they do; and a damn good one.

I am just angry that the NHS is being used to defend mass immigration. There is a vast pool of British born doctors and nurses who could very easily keep the NHS going if they were just allowed to get jobs in the fields they have been trained in.

The balance is all wrong at the moment, yes immigrant doctors and nurses make a fine contribution, but they should only be hired

after our own British trained doctors and nurses have been catered for. Is it any wonder why this country is losing so many doctors and nurses to America and Oz when we struggle to get jobs here?

Answer 1

There are many non British doctors and nurses in the NHS who are making a great contribution...but again lots of our own nurses and doctors are going to Oz and NZ as you rightly point out..

Its sad that we treat our NHS staff so badly with abuse, violence,low wages and dirty conditions...its time they were sorted..the majority of them can't even afford to buy decent homes...what kind of society are we?

This Govt is a joke..the whole immigration thing is not the only thing they have messed up...Brown has shown that he is like Blair...they are the bloody checks of the same backside....

Answer 2

Well said and absolutely spot on,though this current situation is not new.
Many people inside, and outside of the NHS forecast quite some time ago.the NHS was going down a slippery slope.with regard to staffing problems.
I cannot see how the trainees nurses and Doctors in this country have the stomach for the hard slog they have to go through, when at the end of training they have to get in line for vancincies which are abysmally few,and in some trusts, non existent
, There is no question that in many areas the immigrants have , but this should not be at the expense of our own trained staff, +that does need to be addressed quickly+
, Contract immigration staff by all means but, on renewable time limits contract only,

Answer 3

The problem Mike is that many Trusts regularly enter a financial recovery period in which there is a blanket ban on recruitment right across the board - i.e. for non-clinical staff too.

The only way round this is to utilise agency or bank workers who may cost more but appear in a different place on the balance sheet.

Since the majority of British-born and trained staff will seek full-time permanent positions - to which no one is recruiting - the balance swings in favour of those coming from agencies since they don’t attract the same employee rights and can (in theory) be terminated at any time. They’re therefore seen as a more flexible option and whilst they cause an overspend in one area, they assist in meeting required cuts in other areas, plus of course circumvent the recruitment issue.

The problem is that the clinical staff agencies are filled to a large extent by those who have come into the country and are advertising their availability.

What’s frustrating is that these indivduals then end up racking up years of service that could have gone to a permanent or fixed term contract employee.

A classic case of a government-led lack of forward thinking. Short-term savings are the order of the day.

Answer 4

As a bilingual person (English and Welsh) I agree with everything you say. What the politicians have done (and are still doing) to the NHS is nothing short of criminal.

Even in the case of a foreigner who 'theoretically' speaks English it is sometimes difficult to understand them and for them to understand what patients are saying. A few years ago imported Korean nurses were the flavour of the month and they were armed only with some English stock phrases so real communication was impossible.

Proper communication is essential in the NHS. And this includes rhythm of speech and the nuances of language.

Answer 5

I know for a fact that girls who want to train as midwives are being turned away in droves - there are not enough training places, presumably because the Government won't fund them.

And those who do manage to get onto courses and get trained can't get jobs when they leave college.

So how anyone can say this is a "job that Brits don't want to do" (as I once read on this site) is completely ridiculous!

I was lucky to give birth in a lovely local NHS cottage hospital birth centre. But I know of women who've had their babies in crowded hospitals staffed by nurses and midwives who barely speak Engish. That would be a nightmare!!

Answer 6

I agree with you on this, after spending months in hospital 4 years ago i found the traumatic experience even worse because the majority of staff (including doctors, nurses and care assistance) didnt speak english as a first language and that communication was a problem, not the best situation for someone who is a patient at a hospital, although i can not fault the level of care i was given sometimes a kind word or just 2 minutes of friendly chat can help in this type of circumstance and the majority of time this isnt given - i understand that all staff in hospitals are over worked but surely this should be part of patient care as well.

Answer 7

MTAS which is the much maligned 'recruitment' system has resulted in loads of doctors not having proper jobs, and has caused many a medical family literally to split apart (geographically). It was a c0ck up of incredible proportions, and yes, doctors have left the UK as they can not get training jobs that would allow them to become consultants or GP's.

But immigration is needed. There are many nursing homes that can not get UK graduate nurses to work in them, and so they have to go abroad. I do agree though, it is stupid to leave so many nurses who have trained without a job when nurses are needed on the wards, just to save money. They NHS should be funded better. (Though that will mean more taxes.)

But the BMA still is helping doctors from abroad come here to work. Why? Because they are needed. That is why. They work in jobs that are vital to the health service, but offer little in training, which is why our doctors would rather get training abroad.

Answer 8

see where your coming from. I'm currently an hca in my hospital (well on mat leave) but would love to do my nursing upon my return...but on speaking to many student (British)nurses they are worried about getting a job at all,and may end up being in a supermarket,yet there are alot of foreign docs and nurses and the nurses are quite often disliked by older patients (especially stroke victims) because they cannot always understand them when they are speaking and these nurses are often not as caring either,and its heartbreaking to see sometimes,i work on the bank and there are usually 5 or 6 different student nurses assigned to particular wards,(tht are all at different stages of the courses)so why not give these students the jobs on qualifying instead of the foreign workers,students are put off not knowing if they will actually get a job at the end.
well done for bringing this up

Answer 9

If they paid decent wages then nurses etc. would not be emmigrating and taking their skills to other countries, skills that the tax payer has paid for. It's disgraceful that when you visit the hospital the medical staff can't even understand what you are saying. The NHS is a joke.

Answer 10

Thank you so much for your contribution. I agree with every word you say. A relative of mine is involved in the NHS at a high level and has always said what you are saying.

I know from a personal point of view that when I was in hospital on an oncology ward, I needed someone I understood completely and who understood me. You can only get this from someone who has spoken English all of their life.

Three cheers for you.