Question (3): Is the book of Joshua an accurate account of events?

Question

First of all, similar to the books of Moses, the book of Joshua is written in the third person. It would have been absurd and vain-glorious for Joshua to speak of himself when writing - ch7:27: "....and his fame was noised throughout all the Country"
In the final Chapter ofthe book, verse 31, Joshua is spoken ofin the past tense; 24:31; "And Israel served the Lord all the days of Joshua, and all the days of the elders, that overlived Joshua, and which had known all the works of the Lord, that he had done for Israel."
But the most perpleing evidence against the validity of the book of Joshua, is the fantastic tale of the Sun standing still upon Mount Gibeon. Ch 10:13; " And the Sun stood still, and the Moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies, Is this not written in the book of Jasher? So the Sun stood still in the midst of Heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day". This tale, fable, could not have happened without the whole world knowing!

Why would the Moon have to stand still? what use could it have ben during the day? this speaks more of Poetry than History, thus the validity of the book is questionable

No other counrtry, including Egypt, makes note of the miraculous event, wouldn't one side of the world wonder why the Sun had not risen? would the other side ponder why the Sun had not fallen?

this question is not about the acts of God, it is abouit the validity and credulity of the author. To deduce that the author is incorrect would conclude that the book is nothing more than the words of poetry, thus not the word of God, but the fancy of Man

some of you have e-mailed me with your thoughts, but I still have to disagree. The fact that Joshua Sun and Moon stayed still tim the sky, is oetic licence born from the fact that, in their time, itwas thought that the Sun revolved around the Earth. So a better interpretation would have been that the Earth stood still.

Moving back to the evidence within the text that reads in the third person with a narrative and biographical feel, we move to chapter 8;
8:28 - " And Joshua burnt Ai, and made an heap for ever, even in desolation unto this day". Here the writer, once more, speaks of events passed tense, not only that, but with emphasis on the age of the desolation. The words " ..even in desolation unto this day" is used to give emphasis on the huge destruction of that city, that it was soo catastophic, that itis still a waste land, EVEN, today. If this verse was written by Joshua himself, what would be the point of making such a claim, for if it was written at the time of the destruction, lets say the next day, week, month, year, the claim loses its impact and awe. So it would be reasonable to believe that the writer lived in a time long after the event took place, giving the claim its awe, thus Joshua was not the writer ofthis book. Again if this is so Authenticity of the book is questionable

NYBHC; my questions are not directed at God, they are directed at the authenticity of the bible, that, in my opinion the bible is the work of men, that in my series of questions I hope to be able to, hopefully, let you question the scripture yourself, in doing this you will have a clear path to your God, or, you may find, as I, that the biblical God, Jehovah, is nothing more than myth. The Bible cast a powerful spell on humanity, one that has taken away all reason and logic from the faithful, it is my aim to show the Christian that they do not need the bible to find their God, they only need look inside themselves, for true enlightenment come from within

A belief in God should be a personal enlightened epiphany and not something you are taught.

thanx 4 the email Jimi4950, you are quite right

wow! there are some fantastic, informative, intelligent answers on this questions and I will find it hard picking who gets the 10 points. what a great response, just what I hoped for thanx
ST

Answer 1

Not according to the special I watched on the tv, some of the cities didn't even exist.... The history does not add up to facts, its out of order. I found something else that i sent you that was placed in the book that is made up by man.

Answer 2

The books of the bible are very old indeed. For the early OT books, the oldest scraps we have date many hundreds of years after the autograph and for the Pentateuch and Joshua we are talking 1000 years+ between the autograph and the earliest surviving Hebrew manuscripts of these books found near the Dead Sea. Every early book has suffered in transmission and the bible is no exception to this rule. Information is fragile and suffers losses over the centuries. The issue of authenticity hinges on whether; A: the books we now have contain at least some of their original contents or B: the books we now have, were fakes when they were originally composed.

If we assume, for the sake of argument, that the book of Joshua was written when it says it was written (etc) then the more interesting investigation is into what it originally contained. For example, is the passage about the Sun and Moon standing still part of the original text or not? In the absence of early manuscripts, several methods can be used to investigate the reliability; For example, are there other books or sources where this event was alluded to in any way? Well yes, but only once. A very similar solar sign was given to king Hezekiah, (2 Kings 20v10f). But this evidence is not very convincing. Other methods can be used based on textual criticism. For example, is the account in Joshua 10v12~15 integral and important to the context? Well, not really. If you artificially delete vv12~15 the account reads well and makes complete sense. This analysis hints that verses 12~15 about the Sun standing still, all look like a later addition. Another factor indicating vv12~15 are interpolated here is that this remarkable sign is not mentioned or woven into the following text as you might have expected. This is a weaker argument made from silence, but the effect of these analyses is already starting to build up. Next we look at the suspect verses to see whether we can explain them in other ways. We notice immediately in v13 that these verses are quoted from a 'book of Jashar' which also turns up in 2 Samuel 1v18. Whatever we make of this book of Jashar, the verses about the Sun standing still all seem to derive from this other named source. So again, we have evidence indicating that these verses are not original and where they might have come from.

Other methods can be used, but already we have some evidence that the verses Joshua 10vv12~15 were not originally part of that book. Again, this does not mean that all of the book of Joshua is a fake, only that these verse look suspect and may have been added long after the book of Joshua was originally written.

Answer 3

I don't want to proof the reality which is changing all the times. I am not so realize the event of Joshua why he spoke such things for their people. If the event happenned or written by Joshua who wanted to teach his people or leaded his people to a right path, will be a trueth history.(All holyman are working for human good at least he think)
The visual of Sun and Moon stand in the same time is happenning some of the days all round the years. Which is when sun is in the East rising up and the Moon is in the West going down. Chinese called it Sun and Moon same shining.
As we know the earth going round the sun and the moon going round the earth. While we to face of East seeing the Sun, at the same time the Moon is going down leaving the level of water. The angle we can see both sun and moon in the same time. This is not miracle. This is a visual of the universe. Mostly of the religious in the world will apply some of the visual s to god.
They is why god created. God created us and we created god. That is why god cannot change one's mind as he created by us.
For a holy manner of man enlightenment, there must be a very very good manner, good health(health influence mind), good mind(heart) give up everythings belonging.
The basic need are water, eating, exceeding(poo and pee and sometime is sex)
Toa and yoga and budha taught us how to minimize water and eating and stop sex. A tantra yoga being yogaist can stop breathing, eating, drinking more than thousands years, of whom is still existing in the mountain called Gaya. Dharma had been in China tantra for 9 years in Tong Dynasty. Recently there was a Huwan monk tantra 46 days in the mountain, his disciple though he was dyed, luckily another monk knew he was in tantra using a bell to ring him up. No matter how long they can be in tantra, it is still not the way to nirvana.
The karmas are stilling surrounding you. unless you can to face of visual which cannot influence your desire and mind. This is the real nirvana.
Christ did not eat in the mountain for 40 days is the fact and is not a miracle. Every one after the practise of tantra can do. These informations are out of scientist can understand. There will be only a few people can understand. The more you hold, the more you loose. The dharmas have everthings, we are in the dharmas.

Answer 4

Evidence that another person wrote the conclusion IS NOT EVIDENCE AGAINST VALIDITY! For that matter, evidence that someone else wrote the ENTIRE book would not constitute invalidity.

The books of Samuel, Kings and Chronicles were essentially collections of "court records" from the various kings of Israel and Judah. None of the writers are discussed BECAUSE THEIR IDENTITY WAS UNIMPORTANT. Joshua is pretty much the same. The book records actions and events over a long period of time and possibly reflects the efforts of multiple writers working from separate records. None of this affects the VALIDITY of the material the books contain.

... Even New Testament passages that SEEM TO SAY things were written BY a particular person may well be saying they were written FOR or ABOUT them instead. That is just the nature of that language.
The Greek preposition "dia" which comes into English as a prefix in several words is defined: "through, by means of; because of, for the sake of, therefore." "Through" is the primary meaning, but there are lots of cases where it doesn't make sense if we try to translate it that way.
MOST Greek prepositions have similar variation in their meaning. Even in the absence of a preposition, Biblical Greek has three distinct "objective" cases which when applied to a noun can be translated as "for," "of," "in," "by," ... or similar words in English.

Answer 5

Wow, neweyes, and I thought I could be a bit long winded.

So my friend, you move on to the Histories (sic)

The historical books form two series:

(1) Genesis through Kings II (excluding Ruth) and
(2) Chronicles, Ezra, and Nehemiah.

The two sequences differ in scope and point of view, but were probably put in final form during the same editing process, known as a redaction which I described in my answer to your books of Moses question.

Older writings were combined and compiled. As a rule, the compilers didn't rewrite but rather excerpted from existing documents, making it possible for scholars to determine the points of juncture.

The book of Joshua - Following the exodus from Egypt and the years of wandering in the desert, Joshua assumed leadership from Moses (around 1200 BC, give or take 50 years) and began the conquest of the land of Canaan. The story of that conquest is told in the Book of Joshua, including the famous story of the walls of Jericho plus other military exploits.

According to religious tradition, the book was written mostly by Joshua himself, with a few verses (such as the death of Joshua) added by contemporaries.

The scholarly view is that many of the stories are indeed old--some scholars find in Joshua traces of the J and E authors of the Pentateuch. Probably they were transmitted orally to begin with, then later written down. The final process of compilation, including editing and some writing, was done later still, perhaps as late as 600 BC.

In the scholarly view, the books of Joshua, Judges, Samuel, and Kings are largely collections of stories placed in a framework or overview. The editing and style of all six books are fairly uniform, and all are consistent with the Book of Deuteronomy. For instance, the kings are judged as good or evil in the eyes of God based on how well they adhere to the rules set forth in Deuteronomy. The six books therefore are sometimes called the Deuteronomistic History.

If you believe Deuteronomy was written by Moses, you can accept that one hand edited these later books in a manner consistent with the last words of Moses.

If however you believe that Deuteronomy was written by an author D, as described in my moses answer, you may include Deuteronomy itself in the category of "Deuteronomistic history."

I tend to favour the view that - alllong with some scholars - I believe the Deuteronomistic historian was also the redactor of the Torah.

Who was the Deuteronomistic historian and when did he (or his school) flourish? Most scholars place the work around 600 BC, give or take 20 years, with the books completed and edited following the exile in 586 BC. Friedman, in Who Wrote the Bible, argues that the D-author/editor is none other than the prophet Jeremiah (perhaps assisted by Baruch, his aide). He describes how the Deuteronomistic history is consistent (in theme, poetic style, etc.) with the book of Jeremiah.

The sun is not the most absurb bit however, Just view it as a divine type of daylight savings time, God makes the sun stand still so that Joshua can get all his killing done before dark.

if you want poetic licence, then take the facts (sic) of the book, It took the Israelites 40 years to travel from Egypt to Canaan, yet such a journey, even at that time, would have taken no more than ten days. 5:6

In Joshua 8 1 - 29 the Israelites destroy Ai and make it a desolate heap. But Ai was an abandoned city by the time of the Israelites and this story is a myth invented to explain the ruins of an ancient city that the Israelites encountered. See Archaeology and Biblical Accuracy by Farrell Till.

This verse (8:28) says that Ai was never again occupied after it was destroyed by Joshua. But Nehemiah (7:32) lists it among the cities of Israel at the time of the Babylonian captivity.

and what the hell is going on "And the coast of Og king of Bashan, which as of the remnant of the giants...." 12:4, 18:16 - thats pure Harry Potter, where Hagrid?

Answer 6

You know what?

I Googled the thing and found that Velikovsky had written about it. It figured. lol

This is what I found:
The links of his reasoning are forged out of the history and literature of ancient and modern tribes and nations from all over the earth. Text and footnotes sparkle with confirming data from the Bible and the Talmud, from Egyptian papyri, Babylonian astronomical tablets, Mayan and Aztec calendars, from the folklore of Arabia, India, North America, Tibet, China, Peru.

The tale of the sun standing still illustrates one of his principal methods for getting at the facts. Clearly if the sun “hasted not to go down about a whole day” the phenomenon could not have been merely a local spectacle. The whole area of the earth had to be affected: if the sun hung in the morning sky over Gibeon, then elsewhere in the world twilight or darkness was prolonged for the same period.

Dr. Velikovsky produces records from all over the earth which agree as to the time and as to the altered portions of daylight and dark in each area. Similarly concerted testimony repeats itself again and again in other wonder stories. For every such incident which he analyzes, Dr. Velikovsky quotes dozens, scores, even hundreds of confirmations.

For the Bible’s most incredible story - the standing still of the moon and sun while Joshua routed the foe - there is worldwide evidence. says Dr. Velikovsky at the start of a long series of citations:


This man was amazing. Even to this time. It bears to me the need for consideration before coming to the conclusion that the world didn't not experience such an event. Apparently Velikovski had already found out about it.

Answer 7

(Josh′u‧a) [shortened form of Jehoshua, meaning “Jehovah Is Salvation”].

Son of Nun; an Ephraimite who ministered to Moses and was later appointed as his successor. (Ex 33:11; De 34:9; Jos 1:1, 2) The Scriptures portray Joshua as a bold and fearless leader, one who was confident in the certainty of Jehovah’s promises, obedient to divine direction, and determined to serve Jehovah in faithfulness. His original name was Hoshea, but Moses called him Joshua or Jehoshua. (Nu 13:8, 16) The Bible record, however, does not reveal just when Hoshea came to be known as Joshua.

The ordinary day was not long enough for Joshua and his men to pursue and kill all the enemy. So Joshua called upon Jehovah God to perform a miracle and lengthen the daylight. With full faith in the Creator of the sun, moon and stars, Joshua said: “Sun, be motionless over Gibeon, and, moon, over the low plain of Aijalon.” In that remarkable command Joshua was scientifically correct, for the moon as well as the sun was involved in this rare miracle. Joshua 10:12-14 says: “And the sun kept standing still in the middle of the heavens [from Joshua’s standpoint on earth] and did not hasten to set for about a whole day. And no day has proved to be like that one, either before it or after it, in that Jehovah listened to the voice of a man, for Jehovah himself was fighting for Israel.” But at the same time that he was fighting victoriously for the Israelite executioners, Jehovah was also fighting for the life of the Gibeonites who feared him and who chose to become his slaves.—Josh. 9:1 to 10:27

Answer 8

It was a sign from God, who after all created the whole universe and its operating system. We do not necessarily have to understand the system, just believe it.
It is no more amazing that the pillar of fire that protected the fleeing Hebrews from Pharoah's chariots, or the opening of the Red Sea...for long enough for up top a million people to pass across. And all that time the Egyptians were held back.
Secular astronomers have also discovered in their studies that somehow, a full 24 hours is 'missing' from their calculations.

Answer 9

from what im told by a very erudite person, a lot of the bible was written as prose or parables because the risk factors were extremely high. Also it helps to think its in code because thats basically what it it.

Remember its been fiddled with also.

The core thing is your relationship to the divine and how you see God. Whatever that is is something you own and nobody can take that away. As I grew older i began to sense God more that intectually searching for Him or it. The Bible has its place, its beautiful, but to be a fudamentalist who takes all directions from the bible is unrealisic because it was never written with clarity because it couldnt be.

Answer 10

Leaving aside all the erudite expositions and explanations of what might have happened, the only answer i can come up with is that we have no way of knowing whether this set of writings is accurate. Thos who choose to believe the bible to be the revealed word of God will accept it. Those who don't so believe will not. It all comes down to faith.