Do I have a King Shepherd?

Question

Hi, my name is Lizz, and I have a two year old German Shepherd, however he is about 27/28 inches tall from the shoulder down, does this mean he is a King Shepherd? He isn't thick in weight, but he is just very tall, and the slope of his hind legs isn't that deep compared to most Shepherds. Is this bad? He is of champion pedigree, but I havent been able to contact my breeder, answers would be appreciated.

Answer 1

King Shepherd isn't a real breed. You have an oversized German Shepherd Dog. Even if he was 30+ inches, he'd still be a GSD.

Answer 2

Probably not. What you have is probably just an over-sized German shepherd dog. "King shepherds" are a "breed" developed in 1995 by crossing over-sized GSDs with malamutes and great pyrenees. The German Shepherd standard calls for males to be between 24 and 26 inches. This is the *ideal* according to the written standard. Just because a dog is taller or shorter than what the standard calls for does not make it a different breed, just a less than ideal specimen of it's breed. I have a male GSD who is 28 inches tall at the shoulder. He's not a different breed, just a taller-than-ideal dog.

Answer 3

You need to measure him fromthe top of the shoulder, or wither. Male shepherds can be up to 26" and still be considered of standard size. It isn't uncommon to see a simply oversized German shepherd at 27".
The King Shepherd as I recall is a relatively new breed derived from typically oversized and long haired German shepherds. ...two traits that are considered flaws and therefore not breedworthy by German Shepherd standards. Thus the 'new' breed. I guess it just depends on his pedigree and the intent of your breeder as to what category he falls in.

Answer 4

Your GSD sounds gorgeous, but no, he's not a "King Shepherd", simply because there is no such animal. The term King was added in 1995 by a few select people who thought they would "create" a new breed of larger shepherds. The AKC and the CKC and the UKC do not recognize "King Shepherd", so yours remains categorized as a GSD.

Answer 5

No you do not have a king shepherd. There is no such thing. It is a marketing thing that bybers use to sell dogs that are way too big for the standard. Instead of breeding dogs to the shepherd standard, they bred their huge over standard dogs to one another til they had this huge dog that barely resembles a shepherd gave it a fancy name and sell it to people trying to pretend that they have something rare and wonderful. It is merely a shepherd that is bred to be oversized. The hips have an even greater chance of being bad, cause now you have this huge dog on hips that are genetically predisposed to be dysplastic.

Answer 6

I've only heard of a King Shepherd before. I'm still checking for more information, here. King Shepherd is not even in the dictionary; certainly not in dog breed books, either. They can be (you probably know) 22--26." It must just be one of the bigger breeds of the litter. I know: the size they put in books are: if you're going to put them in dog shows.

Answer 7

No you do not. I had a CKC {Canadian Kennel Club} male GSD that was 27 inches tall and weighed 105lbs that didnt have alot of slope only because his sire was from working lines. Show lines have more of a slope than from working lines.

Answer 8

A "breed" is not a breed until it is recognised by the international canine community and has a Breed Registry available with each country's Kennel Club.

For that to happen it must first be recognised by the KC in its Country of Origin (eg, Germany for the GSD) or its Country of Development (eg, the USofA for the American Cocker and the highly mis-named Australian Shepherd). Although there are many private "KCs" and "Registries" in the USofA, only one of them has international recognition - the AKC. Nothing registered or titled by the UKC, the ConKC, the International KC, etc etc is accepted by the Breed Registry/KC of any country - if a Yank pooch is exported without AKC registration it arrives as an unregisterable mutt with no titles or qualifications. This is already happening to the white GSDs - white is simply banned by every GSD Standard, real or rebel. (Don't bother trying to register a GSD as white in Germany or Australia.) A version was eventually recognised by the Swiss KC, and has provisional recognition from the FCI (the body which sets the Standards everywhere except the English-speaking countries) as the Swiss White. But none of the English speaking countries is as yet prepared to recognise the Swiss White.

No country is going to recognise the "King Shepherd", and only in NAmerica would the idea be considered a possibility by people who foolishly pay for "rarity" instead of first finding out WHY that feature is rare, and why responsible breeders try to KEEP it rare..
The AKC is not going to recognise the King Shepherd. The whole list of requirements is available at http://www.akc.org/reg/fss_details.cfm
but
"The FSS® is not open to "rare" breeds that are a variation of an AKC-registrable breed or the result of a combination of two AKC-recognized breeds. This includes and is not limited to differences such as size (over and under), coat type, coat colors, and coat colors and/or types that are disqualifications from Conformation Events by AKC breed standards."
is the core of WHY the King won't be recognised and why the AKC is loathe to recognise the Swiss White (Berger Blanc Suisse, to give it its current name).

Don't expect the AKC to recognise the Shiloh either - the Shiloh is the 30± inch monster produced by crossing oversized GSDs with such as Malamutes, that some of your answerers thought was a King Shepherd. No cross-breed can be accepted as a breed while a pooch of any other breed appears inside 6 or 7 generations.

In simple terms:
• a King Shepherd is any oversized GSD, and if it is registered with the AKC it will be as a GSD.
• a Shiloh is a designer dog produced by cross-breeding and if it is "registered" it will be via Tina Barber's private Shiloh registry.


As for "GSD Champions measuring 27 inches" - only in NAmerica! It is a toss up as to which of the "rebel Standards" is worst, but maybe the CKC's document edges out the The KC (UK)'s document.
There is only one true Standard for the GSD. It was developed by the SV (foundation club of our breed), modified by a conference of the WUSV (World Union of GSD Clubs with reps from every GSD country), and recorded as FCI#166.
An official translation into English is available via the special link near the bottom of http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/GSD_Friendly/ (People who can accept the Rules on the GSD_Friendly Home Page are welcome to join the group - it's been too quiet since Thanksgiving.)

The key point is that, unlike the wordy-but-vague AKC "rebel Standard", the REAL Standard sets limits. For a male GSD's height that is the range 59-to-66 cm. But that is the ABSOLUTE limit; to be considered typical and be eligible for BS.Cl.1 the male must be in the range 60-65 cm.
It so happens that 66 cm is a whisker smaller than 26 inches. So a 26" GSD is already just a BS.Cl.2 at best. But in NAmerican KC rings a 26" male looks SMALL! Obviously what wins in NAmerican KC rings is unlikely to be a typical GSD, even without going into incorrect neck carriage, incorrect upper-arms & withers, too-deep chests (the AKC rebel "Standard" actually ENCOURAGES deep chests!), short-&-straight croups, excessive angles at knee & hock, and planting the whole unpadded length of the hock on the ground at each step. Yes, sometimes a German-bred dog wins in the AKC ring - but the "important" breeders in Germany are mighty knowledgeable, and know exactly which countries will pay inflated prices for which faults. Oversize flies off to NAmerica or Britain while the breeder laughs all the way to the bank. Oversize used to also fly off to Australia, forcing the GSDCAustralia to require that all imports be promptly resurveyed in Australia.

Summing up in NAmerican inches for male pooches:
24-26" = GSD, a true breed
26-29" = King, a departure, maybe pure-bred
30±" = Shiloh, a cross-bred departure

Nothing bigger than a true GSD deserves the term "shepherd dog" - it is just too lumbering and has too high a fuel-consumption. Most herding dogs are noticeably smaller than the GSD. The bigger sheep dogs, especially those with coats that look rather like sheep's wool, were developed as GUARDIAN dogs, not as herding dogs. The true GSD performs both tasks very well, and is adaptable enough to also perform very well in a host of other tasks, earning its reputation as the world's most adaptable dog. But any added size makes it less adaptable, and especially makes it unsuitable for the basic task, which is patrolling between hungry sheep and unfenced crops for up to 14 hours a day.

So every breeder who advertises "King Shepherds" is simply using con-artist-speak aka spin to avoid having to say "Actually, my dogs are untypical, and failures as GSDs". Doesn't stop their pooches from being lovable (some people love Chihuahuas, some people love Irish Wolfhounds), but they are no more breed-worthy GSDs than is a St.Bernard or a Maltese.
Les P, owner of GSD_Friendly

Answer 9

Exactly. You have a BIG GSD. A "king" is just another bad breeder term for OVERSIZED that can bring more $$$$.

Answer 10

Your registration papers should say.