John 10:30 - I and my Father are one?

Question

Why do Trinitarians use this verse to support the Trinity doctrine? Its clearly taken out of context, and the proof of that is in the 17th Chapter of John.

John 17:11,12
I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name—the name you gave me—SO THAT THEY MAY BE ONE AS WE ARE ONE.

21 that all of them MAY BE ONE, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.


So isn't it clear that Jesus wasn't referring to a Trinity?

Fireball226

Trinitarian verse of 1 John 5:7 was not in the original manuscripts and thats why most Bibles don't translate it the same way.

Misti M

Was Jesus the Son of God or God?

judy_derr38565

In 1 Timothy 3:16, the word "God" was not found in the original text. If you look at Bibles other than the KJV, they don't bother using the corrupted translation.

I know the Trinity well, but I don't believe in it. Theres many verses in the Bible that contradicts it, and theres many false translations that supports the doctrine.

The Bible doesn't say he is God the Son, it says hes the Son of God. He cannot be the Son of God and be God at the same time.

Answer 1

John 10:30 -36.

The Father and I are one (What?).

Context, Context, Context:

One what? The Greek word ‘one’ literally means ‘one thing’ or ‘in unity’

vs 25 Jesus tells us about the works he and the Father are doing.

vs 29 Jesus tells us that “What the Father has GIVEN ME (works to do) is greater than all other things”

vs 30 the Father and Jesus are united, one.

vs 32 Which works are you stoning me for?

vs 33 – 35 Jesus tells us he is equal to the human gods of Ps 82:6.

vs 36 Jesus identifies himself not as his Father but as his Father’s Son (John 8:42-45),
Jesus is the Son, not part of the Son, Jesus is the Christ, not part of the Christ.

vs 37 believe the works.

The context to John 10:30 shows: I and my Father are one (united in works).
This agrees with John 17:11, 20 – 22;

Do you realize that to believe that Jesus or the Christ or the Son (Col 1:13-15) is more than an image of God is to be blinded by Satan?

If we believe that Jesus or the Son is more than an image we are an unbeliever.

2 Cor 4: 4 among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through.

Again I pray, that the God (Yahweh Elohim) of Christ Jesus (the Word / Son of Yahweh Elohim) gives you wisdom.

Eph 1:3, 17


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Answer 2

I looked up 1 Tim 3:16 in the NIV, NRSV, NASB, and NSB, all versions Baptists use in Quickverse, probably the most well known program with about a dozen versions and you are right. The early translators where trinitarians. I don't consider it an imperfection in the Bible if you use the definition, "Perfect for the purpose intended." Perfectionism is a diagnosed illness like black and white thinking. Paul said not to "argue over words". I have to think that, in a like manner, we have more pressing issues in these times, like getting Christians in touch with the spirit that the Bible teaches they are supposed to have, if you look it up. The spirit reveals all passages in context of the whole scriptures and all reality, for that matter. If the world had that skill or just Christians did, what would that mean. Have you thought that all the major religions believe in Jesus and many atheists like much of his teachings. Muslims, Christians, Hindus and probably more, all profess Christ. Something is wrong in our house. Those three religions represent four or five billion people. Could we at least present a united front and forget the differences so as not to confuse the rest of the world and ourselves and argue doctrine later. Arguing isn't in the right spirit. Scientists never agree either, but they are getting more support than us because of what they do agree on and that they keep learning more, while we seem to keep going on and on over the same scriptures, not even understanding them thoroughly. You would think there where no other scriptures. Every church picks it's favorites to misunderstand. I can tell you that none of our understandings are perfect and there is an infinity more to learn. If any of us had the spirit then we would all agree, more or less or at least enough. From the Crusades to Iraq, we're out of wack. Maybe we should ask, not what would Jesus say, but what would Jesus do. I think we would agree that he would heal and billions of beliers should be able to do the same. Jesus did speak for God in the OT, but so did angels. I assume that they were just quoting God verbatum rather than that they all were God. I thought we were all in Gods mind, and that we were only His thoughts. On the other hand...

Answer 3

All the clever human reasoning in the world does not overcome the truth of God's Word.

"For us [Christians] there is ONE GOD, the FATHER." (1 Corinthians 8:6)

This same One is "the GOD and FATHER of our Lord Jesus Christ." (1 Peter 1:3)

Jesus is the Son of GOD. Nowhere does the phrase "God the Son" occur in the original texts of the New Testament.

Son "of" God means that he cannot at the same time be God.

Nor can anyone sit at his own right hand.

Jehovah is God. Jesus is the Son of God. The holy spirit is also the spirit "of" God, not God.

The doctrine of the Trinity is nothing but a pagan philosophical attempt to explain the nature of God that is nowhere explained as such in the Holy Bible.

If God wanted us to believe in a Trinity, He would have put the word in the Bible. He didn't.

Therefore, Christians have absolutely no obligation to believe in the man-made and church-council-imposed philosophy of the Trinity.

Answer 4

God has decided to use humans to tell these truths. He could have made the stones cry out. He could have thundered his voice and told all to listen. But God only wants the cream of the crop. He wants the humble, the meek, and the teachable. So if you cannot understand these scriptures or if you choose not to bother then Jehovah has probably not drawn you to himslf at this time.

And time is getting short to do God's will and be saved.

Even Jesus said the Kingdom of God was near and showed us what to do.

Pray, serve God, and live a good life. Help others, be hospitable and believe in Jesus.

Love to my brothers and sisters. Agape

Answer 5

Many Christians attribute the notion of the Trinity to Jesus of Nazareth - see Matthew 28: 19-20:

"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you." They believe Jesus thus not only defines the Trinity, but appears to indicate that there is one name that encompasses the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Also see John:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made." John in Chapter 1 explains that "the Word" refers to Jesus the Christ.

Of course, in the end, it is a matter of faith. Great question!

Answer 6

Jesus was created the almighty has always been here.
what more proof than that do you need?


Colossians 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16 because by means of him all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All [other] things have been created through him and for him. 17 Also, he is before all [other] things and by means of him all [other] things were made to exist, 18 and he is the head of the body, the congregation. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that he might become the one who is first in all things; 19 because [God] saw good for all fullness to dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile again to himself all [other] things by making peace through the blood [he shed] on the torture stake, no matter whether they are the things upon the earth or the things in the heavens.

Revelation 3:14 “And to the angel of the congregation in La·o·di·ce´a write: These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God,

Answer 7

THE GOD AND FATHER OF JESUS SENT JESUS THE SAVIOR OF THE WORLD

John 17:1-26 [ Jesus prays to his father, Jesus with God before the world was ]; Jesus first creation, created in image of God 1Cor.1:15-17; Rev.3:14;
NO TRINITY:
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son,
that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that
the world through him might be saved.

Matt.3:16 [ God anointed Jesus ]; 6:9-13 [ Jesus gives, the Lord's prayer ];
13:37-39 [the end time sowers of the WORD ]; 16:16 [ the apostle Peter says,
Jesus is the Son of God ]; 22:42-44 [ Jesus is to be at God's right hand ];
22:37-40 [ Jesus gives first & great commandment ]; 24:3,7,14,15 [end times];
25:31-35 [ separate sheep from goat in end times ]; 28:18 [ All power given
Jesus in heaven and on earth ];

John 14:13,14,28 [ Pray to my Father in my name, my Father is greater than 1 ];

John 19:38-42; Jesus is buried.
Acts 2:27-35; Jesus resurrected to God's right hand.[How long at God's right hand];
Acts 13:30; God raised him from the dead. John 20:17; Jesus said, I ascend to my
Father and your Father, my God and Your God.

Answer 8

Beliefs and customs of others need to be examined to see if they be true or not.
Trinity: This means they believe one god in three persons.
Jehovah is the name of the Almighty God Psalm 3:18
Is Jehovah a Trinity-Three persons in one god NO! Jehovah,the Father,is the only true God(John 17:3; Mark12:29) Jesus is his firstborn Son, and he is subject to GOD(Corinthians 11:3) The Father is greater than the Son.(John14:28) The Holy spirit is not a person;it is gods active force.-Gensis1:2;Acts2:18

Answer 9

So to argue against the trinity you use a verse that has been used as evidence to explain the duality of Christ? Gospel of John Chapter 10 verse 32

Answer 10

When Bible writers write that a number of persons are "one," they consistently mean it in a FIGURATIVE sense.

For example, Paul writes to the Galatian Christians, "ye are all one [person] in Christ" - Gal. 3:28. And Paul includes himself and Apollos in a "oneness": "He that plants [Paul] and he that waters [Apollos] are one [thing]" - 1 Cor. 3:6, 8.

"`One' also expresses the unity between Christ and the Father (Jn 10:30), the union between believers and the Godhead, and the unity which exists among Christians (Jn 17:21; Gal. 3:28). `One' further expresses singleness of PURPOSE" - p. 844, New Bible Dictionary, (2nd ed.), 1982, Tyndale House Publ.

John (and even more specifically that Jesus as quoted by John) uses this figurative sense of "one" for groups of individuals.

Therefore, let's examine John 17:22. "The glory which thou hast given me I have given to them; that they may be one, just as we are ONE." - NASB. (Compare John 17:11. - A footnote for John 17:11 in the very trinitarian The NIV Study Bible, Zondervan, 1985 says: "the unity is to be like that between the Father and the Son.")

Not only is it obvious that these Christians are not equally Christ with Jesus, nor equally God with the Father, nor are they all one person, but that they are all figuratively united in "will" and "purpose" with God. -RDB

For much more on this scripture, see:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JWquestions_and_answers_archives/message/105