Christians who say Mosiac Law is over, do you know you have spit in Jesus face?

Question

Jesus was the WORD...right?

The only WORD that existed was TORAH at the time of Jesus Arrival. He was an OLD TESTAMENT SCROLL, walking, living and breathing.

So when you reject the OT, but say "Jesus was the WORD" , you are saying "I'm a democrat" "But I LOVE those Republicans!"

Anyone see the LOGIC?

I'm sure Paul quotes are being readied to justify your Torahless lives. But lets keep it to Jesus, the OT scroll. Paul wrote to specific groups, and you apply it to your lives cuz its convenient. If Paul was in America, would he write a letter on how damn holy you all are and that you need to stop living such a legalistic life? Or say "REPENT!!!"" ?

So, no Paul just for once.

Answer 1

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BTW... you could have left the "on how DAMN holy you all are" statement out and still made a good point.

Answer 2

I think you are right! I have always seen the logic in getting back to worshiping God they way Jesus worshiped Him! I have never rejected OT. In fact, I love the whole Bible! etc. I am sure Paul would have told some of the churches that I have been to that they needed to "REPENT"! They are filled with people who delight in dead religion! Legalism was a big issue in Jesus' day as well. He really told religious leaders who were too focused on being legalistic that they were neglecting the real meaning of the Law. Sitting in church does not make one any more of a Christian then sitting in a hospital makes me a doctor! One must make a search for pure worship that is acceptable to God! Thank you for making this observation! I totally agree!

Tammy, you are so wrong! The Jews did not crucify Jesus! He came to die for us. We ALL put him on the cross! The Romans were the ones that crucified Christ. The high priest and Herod were political appointments made by non other than Rome! Jerusalem was under Roman rule at the time! That is why they were afraid to seize Christ during the Passover! They were afraid the Jewish people would rebel. Why? Because the crowds gathered to be taught by Jesus and loved him. They even wanted to make him king. But he would not have it!
You must remember that Christ had 12 Apostles who were all Jewish as well as the first Christian congregations! It does not look like a large number of the Jews at that time rejected Jesus to me!

Answer 3

Actually Jesus accepted the whole Old Testament, not just the Torah. He speaks of the Law and the Prophets. The Mosaic Law is not over, but much of it is fulfilled. Paul's message was not repent, it was believe.

Answer 4

How can we NOT quote Paul! Paul was so knowledgeable about the most intimate details of the Torah that his writings are invaluable to those who truly seek to fully obey God! So what if some do not understand (2 Peter 3:15-16)? That does not negate the importance of Paul’s writings. Everything that Paul taught backed up or expounded on what Messiah Yeshua said in Matthew 5.

Perhaps you and the others misunderstand Paul’s teachings? There is nowhere that Paul is telling the converts that they are not to observe the Torah, which would be an absolute perversion of all that he stood for. Jimmeisn did not read enough of Galatians, Paul wrote this:

Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revelings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23Meekness, temperance: AGAINST SUCH THERE IS NO LAW.

In other words, he is plainly teaching the gentile Galatians to live their lives according to things that are not against the Torah (vv:22-23), he is plainly showing them from Torah instructions (Go look those things up!) things that will keep them out of the Kingdom of God (vv:19-21).

1 Corinthians 7: 17 But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches. 18 Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised. Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

In other words, it doesn’t matter if you are Jew or gentile,circumcised or not, it only matters that you are obeying God by keeping His commandments (Torah).

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

How did Paul define sin?

Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

It is pretty plain he is not talking here about the “Law of Love” which most professing Christians try to hide behind!

All those who wish to be antinomians should read 1 John 2:4!

Romans 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

It sure doesn't sound like the Paul people want to hold up as their example for grace!

Edit: Yahoogirl: Keep up the questions! Sounds like you are on the right track.


Edit: Marie25, in a sense you are correct, but who is more guilty of the death of Messiah, those who did the deed or those who contracted it out?

Edit: robinr, The whole basis of conventional Christianity is that Paul taught his gentile converts that they did not have to follow Torah. In other words, they did not have to observe the Sabbath or High Days or to refrain from eating unclean food.
This is totally false. Neither Paul or Yeshua came to found a brand new religion, they came to magnify or make more clear a very old one.

Edit: Conspiracy Brother, Yes, Yeshua is the bridge between our disobedience and salvation and it is through His atoning work that we are saved. HOWEVER, this does not release us from nor negate our responsibility to live our lives according to God's instructions (Torah). Indeed, Yeshua says it is the least of the things we should be doing:

Matthew 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Luke 17:10 So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you (Torah), say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our DUTY to do.

Think about that word "duty". It means we are obligated to do something.

Someone always uses the "schoolmaster" analogy as an excuse to not obey the Commandments of the Almighty, it is a spurious argument. Think for a minute, when you were in Kindergarten or first grade you learned (I hope) that 1+1=2. All your life, no matter how much education you attain, 1+1 is still going to =2. So it is with the Law as a schoolmaster that brings us to Christ, no matter how much we learn and grow in the grace and knowledge of the truth, the Sabbath is still the Sabbath, the High Holy Days are still Holy, pigs are still unfit for human consumption, parents are to be honored, lies are still lies, adultrey is still wrong, drunkeness is still wrong. These are some of the basics, the items that our Savior taught were our duty to do. The Bible should be our guide in living for Chist in this crazy sinful world.

Answer 5

We do not say Mosaic Law is over; we say that we are no longer bound by Mosaic Law. The Laws form the foundation of the Christian faith and will always be important. Much of what Jesus eschewed in his short life was the legalistic maneuvers of the Pharisees.

Answer 6

Simply put... the "Law" is the tutor that brings us to the realization that we can't bridge the chasm which sin created between God and man. Ergo, Jesus being the fulfillment of the law, did bridge the gap... ergo, a relationship with Christ is a saving relationship by which we get in through HIS works, not our own.

Answer 7

agree with you i do 2 peter 2-21 agrees with you

Answer 8

You're incredibly ignorant, we never rejected the Old Testament nor the Torah, the law of Moses (don't tell me you still stone adulterers) was accomplished, the messiah came and it was you guys who spat on his face and had him crucifyed.

John wrote that in the beginning was the Word, Jesus, before the Torah, and the Word was made flesh and dwelt among men.

Do you still sacrifice animals? do you stone the ones who disobey the Sabbath? how dare you telling me that I don't respect the Mosaic law when you yourself don't.

Answer 9

Jesus Christ, and His love, were the fulfillment of the law. Thus, we live under the law of love and grace.

Answer 10

So to your e-mail and your new question
again i will say

JESUS FULLFILLED ALL OF THE LAW

READ the scripture and even in the Old testament
it speaks of JESUS FULLFILLING THE LAW

WAKE UP
JESUS IS THE MESSIAH
and HE CAME
and the JEWS are BLINDED FOR THE SAKE OF THE GENTILES
till the time of the gentiles are fullfilled

then God will come again
and show you who
HE IS
and you will see the marks in HIS hands and HIS FEET
and you will ask HIM
where HE got them and HE WILL SAY
in the HOUSE of MY FRIENDS

and my life isnt legalism yours is..your still holding to the old covenant....which was fullfilled by CHRIST
we LIVE UNDER GRACE and MERCY of CHRIST

and as it is written "" HE COULD SWARE BY NO GREATER HE SWORE TO HIMSELF ""

and it is written "" by so much JESUS made a surety of a better testament. And they truly were many priests , because they were not suffered to continue by reason of Death; BUT this MAN , because HE continueth EVER , hath an unchangeable priesthood. Wherefore HE is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto GOD by HIM , seeing HE EVER LIVETH to make intercessions for them. For such an high priest became us , who is Holy , harmless , undefiled , seperate from sinners , and made higher than the heavens; Who NEEDETH NOT DAILY , as those high priets , to offer up sacrific first for his own sins , and then for the people's: FOR THIS HE DID ONCE, WHEN HE OFFERED UP HIMSELF. For the LAW maketh men high priests which have INFIRMITY; BUT the WORD of the OATH , which was since the law , maketh the SON , who is consecrated for EVERMORE.
Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum; WE HAVE such an HIGH PRIEST , who is set on the RIGHT HAND of the THRONE of the MAJESTY in the HEAVENS;
A MINISTER of the sanctuary , and of the TRUE TABERNACLE , which THE LORD PITCHED , and NOT MAN."

and this it says further ""For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days saith the LORD ; I will put my laws into thier mind , and write them in thier hearts; and I will be to them a God , and they shall be to me a people; And they shall not teach every man his neighbor and every man his brother saying , Know the LORD: for ALL shall know me , from the least to the greatest.
For I will be merciful to thier unrighteousness and thier sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
In that HE saith, A NEW COVENANT, HE hath made the FIRST OLD. NOW that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away."


""FOR CHRIST being come an high priest of good things to come , by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say not of this building. Neither by the blood of goats and calves , BUT BY HIS OWN BLOOD HE ENTERED IN ONCE, into the Holy place , having obtained ETERNAL REDEMPTION FOR US ""

"" AND for THIS CAUSE , HE IS THE MEDIATOR OF THE NEW TESTAMENT , that by means of DEATH, for the redemption of the transgression that were under the FIRST TESTAMENT , they which are called might recieve the PROMISE OF ETERNAL INHERITANCE""
""FOR where a TESTAMENT IS there must also of NECESSITY BE THE DEATH OF THE TESTATOR.
For a testament is of force after men are dead; otherwise it is no strength at all while the testator liveth.""
"" FOR CHRIST IS NOT entered into HOLY PLACES made with hands, which are the figures of the TRUE; but INTO HEAVEN ITSELF, NOW to appear in the presence of GOD for us.""
"" FOR THEN must HE often have suffered since the FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD: but now once in the end of the world hath HE APPEARED to put away sin by the sacrific of HIMSELF""
SO CHRIST was once offered to bear the sins of many ; and unto them that LOOK FOR HIM shall HE APPEAR the SECOND TIME WITHOUT SIN UNTO SALVATION.""


JESUS FULLFILLED THE MOSAIC LAW
FOR NOW HE ALONE IS PRIEST FOREVER AFTER THE ORDER OF MELCHISEDEC
FOR WITHOUT FATHER,WITHOUT MOTHER, WITHOUT DESCENT , HAVING NEITHER BEGINNING OF DAYS, NOR ENDOF LIFE;BUT MADE LIKE UNTO THE SON OF GOD;ABIDETH A PRIEST CONTINUALLY !!

THIS MAN , JESUS
EMMANUEL ( GOD with US)
JESUS CHRIST
did not abolish the law
but FULLFILLED the LAW


and HE told MOSES TELL THEM.... I AM ....sent you
and HE TOLD the sect of the Jews again
""BEFORE Abraham was..I AM ""