I just want to know what others think on this certain line of thought, that somebody on here has posted repeatedly. Who will remain nameless, because the purpose of this question is not mud-slinging, but real opinions on this thought process.
Somebody has posted....
"God is defined as omnipotent and omniscient. If God is omniscient, he knows what he will do in the future. That means he can't change his mind and is therefore not omnipotent. Therefore the god of the bible cannot exist."
Now, my point is this. What is omniscience? It is knowing absolutely everything there is to know, past, present and future. Perfect knowledge, right? So, if a being was omniscient, then he would never be in a situation where he had to change his mind, because that would mean he didn't have perfect knowledge about it to begin with.
Again, this is not necessarily about the God of the bible, but any omnipotent, omniscient being.
What are your thoughts on this? Thanks.
2007-11-27 03:14:29 · 12 answers · asked by Anonymous in Society & Culture ➔ Religion & Spirituality
Mr. Diamond007, I already know what I think about the subject. I just wanted other people's opinions on the matter. And, this question is subject to philosophical thought. So I thought I would ask it in here, that is what this place is for. Thanks for your concern though.
2007-11-27 03:31:27 · update #1
There is no contradiction here because God is not subject to space and time.
2007-11-27 03:20:05 · answer #1 · answered by unfit_commander 5 · 2⤊ 2⤋
I've always known it to mean all-knowing. That contradicts so much in the Buy-bull. That would mean 'He' knew what issues /questions there would be but didn't give a reasonable explanation. This 'loving' deity knew there would be atheists and numerous non Xian/Judaism/Islamic people yet created a place of eternal torment for them after they die. So, the concept of all-knowing makes the concepts of a 'loving deity' giving 'free will' with the promise of eternal punishment, contradictory.
Besides, if this being were all-powerful (omniscient), then nature would have males spontaneously creating life.
Edit: Oh, yeah. If the deity was perfect, there would be no motivation (he couldn't be bored or lonely) and is he was omniscient, he would realize how many times humans would disappoint him/make him angry, so creation never would have happened.
2007-11-27 11:52:22 · answer #2 · answered by strpenta 7 · 0⤊ 0⤋
IMO, it's leaving out important parts of who God is. It's like defining you strictly by your nationality or career - sure, it's part of who you are, but it's not *who you are*, if you know what I mean.
Yes, God is omniscient - he has perfect knowledge - but he also allows us free will. It's not that he knows everything because he decided it would be that way and that's that; he knows everything because he's not bound by time. He can see the whole thing at once - creation, Revelation, what's beyond, and everything in between.
Sort of like if you could see (and actually understand/focus on) all parts of a movie at once. You would know what happened at the beginning, end, and everywhere in between because you saw it - not because you made it so.
Incomplete analogy, sorry, but it's what came to mind :-) It's the same with God. Yes, he knows all, because he sees it all.
However, he also gave us free will. Just because he sees it doesn't mean that the pattern isn't fluid, that we can't change it by our decisions. The Old Testament states plenty of times when the petition of a faithful man - Abraham, Moses, and others - caused God to change his mind. (The God of the Bible is the one in the quote that you posted, so he's the one I'm writing about.)
The quote that you posted is based on faulty logic. "If A is B, and B is C, then A is C." This works sometimes with unchangeable physical traits, but most of the time, it doesn't; however, it can't be applied to explaining who someone is. It's just assuming one facet of something and applying it to the whole. It's assuming that being omniscient is the be all and end all of who God is, that nothing else comes into the picture.
It's like saying "All doctors are rich, and Jim is a doctor, so he's rich." Who knows? Maybe Jim really sucks at money management. "All blondes have fun, and Karen is a blond, so she's having fun." Maybe she's not. "All boys love math, and Tommy is a boy, so he loves math." Maybe he doesn't.
What I'm saying is that we can't take one trait and judge someone on it - even God. Yes, he's omniscient, but he can choose to change things if he wants. So can we. He's not bound by time (as we are, being temporal beings), but he is active within the structure he has created for us (space, time, matter). He is an intelligent being, he makes choices, and he does change his mind when the situation warrants it. There are lots of examples of him doing so.
Anyway...JMHO. Hope that answers your question :-)
2007-11-27 11:33:03 · answer #3 · answered by hsmomlovinit 7 · 1⤊ 1⤋
You missed the point of that statement, or maybe didn't think about it too much. It isn't about the necessity of changing, it is about the possibility. If a god is omniscient, that is, he/she/it has perfect knowledge of will happen, including its own actions (or lack thereof), then there exists no possibility for change (because the knowledge would be rendered imperfect). If it is impossible for the god to change its actions, then something exists outside the control of his/her/its power, which negates omnipotence.
2007-11-27 13:47:53 · answer #4 · answered by Recreant- father of fairies 4 · 0⤊ 1⤋
A being that is omnipotent and omniscient, or almighty and alknowing, is obviously not human and therefore bigger and better than all earthly beings making it god like.
It sounds to me that the person that posted the original quote did not know the definition of those two words because something can be alknowing and almighty simultaniously.
But it was a good thought!
2007-11-27 11:22:49 · answer #5 · answered by lovebug0928 2 · 1⤊ 2⤋
I think people are looking too deeply into an ideal. The christian god, as told by their book, is not what they consider the embodiment of perfection, and repeatedly changes course throughout the script. I think this deity is more of an unreachable, unobtainable perfection as dictated by a few ideas in this book that seemed to ring true for the masses at the time it was translated.
2007-11-27 11:20:41 · answer #6 · answered by slinkyfaery 2 · 0⤊ 1⤋
yes, i can agree that omniscience and omnipotence are not mutually exclusive, but mutually required....
however, the idea of omnipotence poses a problem on it's own...
the omnipotent being is complete within itself, so why would it create anything?and how would this omnipotent being come to be? would it not require a more powerful being (not possible) to create it, somehow?
2007-11-27 11:21:34 · answer #7 · answered by Anonymous · 1⤊ 0⤋
Yes, God is omniscient. He knows the beginning and the end of everything. He knows how many hairs are on your head. He knows when a sparrow falls.
And ONLY God is omniscient.
God bless!
2007-11-27 11:31:54 · answer #8 · answered by Devoted1 7 · 1⤊ 1⤋
Acccording to Indian myth, God himself had to join a war to kill a demon(using real material weopons).
what we need to understand is....
1.being the creator, it is likely that,god himself created the demon.
2.How can god(peacefull being)endulg himself in a war?
3.why does he need human made weapons to fight?
Killing a demon is a matter of blinking his eye for the Almighty, but the act of waginng a war can be asumed as a MORAL LESSON FOR THE HUMANS....
So all these contradiction to god's power is of the same reason.
2007-11-28 05:04:05 · answer #9 · answered by yo adam 2 · 0⤊ 0⤋
Sure, if a being was omnipotent he would have no need to change his mind. I agree. This is why trying to disprove fairy tales is a risky venture.
2007-11-27 11:19:18 · answer #10 · answered by zero 6 · 2⤊ 2⤋