Question (1) ; Who wrote the first five books of the bible?

Question

Genesis
Exodus
Leviticus
Numbers and
Deuteronomy

Whether modern Christians want to believe it or not; Moses is given, by the Church, as the author of the first five books of the Bible.
OK! but the bible itself shows evidence that the author could not have been Moses!
1) The style and manner of the text is altogether written in the third person
2) Numbers 12:3 speaks of Moses being the very most Meek above ALL other men. If Moses wrote this don't you find it stupefyingly bumptious? but if it was written as a narration the terminology asserts a writer in awe of his subject by way of a biography of someone held in esteem.
3) Deuteronomy signifies most, of all the five books of Moses, that of a narration. the narator introduces his subject then makes way for Moses to speak, then, he resumes his narative giving his own view. After making account of Moses' final words he then takes over his narrative to finalise the book with an account of Moses' death, funeral and finally the analysis of Moses' character.

deuteronomy 34:5-6; So Moses the servent of the Lord died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the Lord
And he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Bethpeor; but no man knoweth of his sepulchure unto this day.
the terminology; " no man knoweth of his sepulchure unto this day" speaks volumes to the reader, for it tells us that the writer wrote this, many years, after Moses' death, for if it were written the same day or the next day, week or even year, the narrative becomes less impressive, thus there would be no need for it.

the grammatical evidence shows without doubt that Moses was not the author of any of the 5 books attributed to him. so we must conclude that someone else wrote them, some of you have already come to this conclusion, even some Christians ( mainly because they think the OT has no relevence to the teachings of the NT and JC) but the OT is the beggining of the story, it is why the Council of Nicea included it.

so if we deduce that the first five books of the bible were a narrative, biography, of the life of Moses and not a revelation given to Moses, then the Bible itself loses authenticity
if we conclude ( as some do) that to the books of Moses were added a narrative later; then the bible loses all authenticity.
my last note is this; even if the books of Moses were written by him through a revelation from God, then that revelation would be to him only, for once that revelation was passed by Moses to others it becomes hearsay, thus the character and credulity of the witness becomes the focus of the story. so! if this is true, why would God use such a flawed concept of communication?

great answer as usual David C

there is a plethora of evidence against the Chritian and Jewish view that Moses wrote the books attributed to him. I will mention jut one more;
In the book of Genesis Lot is taken prisoner, when word reaches Abraham, he arms his army and marches off to face the captor, pursueing them unto Dan. This as immpossible, for the place Dan did not exist during that time.
th town refrred to in Genesis as Dan was actually caled Laish! The town is mentioned in the book of Judges chapter 18 verse 27 as being iezed upon by the Danites. this siege took place ( accoing to the bible, Judges) immediately after the dath of Sampson, which is thought to have been 1120yrs BCE, and Moses 1451 BCE. thus the writr of the Genesis calls Laish, Dan, 331 yrs before the name change. it then seems that the book of Genesis was written atleast 331 yrs after the death of the Moses. but who wrote it? if we do not know author of this biography, then how is it credible to believe him?

Answer 1

Ho Ho, the biggest can of worms to date.

Here goes, its a long answer. God (sic) only knows who wrote/compiled/edited (and when) the first five books of the Bible, called the Torah or the Pentateuch or the Five Books of Moses?

Now I can hear the fundies telling us that the text was dictated by God to Moses on Mount Sinai, letter for letter (or pretty much letter for letter). A few religious groups still ascribe authorship to Moses, but use words like "divinely inspired" rather than "dictated letter for letter."

Mosaic authorship would mean the five books were written around 1280 to 1250 BC, the most commonly accepted range of dates for the exodus from Egypt, give or take 30 years. The text reports the death of Moses--how could Moses have written of his own death? It also describes Moses as "the most humble man who ever lived"-- Why then would Moses write that about himself?

The main problems are Several stories are repeated, with different characters or different emphasis (called "doublets"). For instance, there are two creation stories (Gen 1 and Gen 2). There are three stories of a patriarch traveling among pagans and pretending his wife is his sister. There are two stories of Moses striking a rock to produce water. There are two versions of the Ten Commandments (one in Exodus, one that Moses recaps in Deuteronomy) with slightly different wording. There are, in fact, a lot of these doublets.
There are internal inconsistencies. The number of days of the Flood story don't add up right. At one point, Noah takes two of each animal; at another point, he takes two of some, seven of others. Joseph is sold into slavery to Ishmaelites in one verse, to Midianites a few verses later. The Mountain of Revelation is sometimes called Sinai and sometimes Horeb. Moses' father-in-law is sometimes called Yitro and sometimes Ruel, and so on.

Scholars in late 18th century Germany noted that in most of the duplicated stories, one set described God using the Hebrew word Elohim (usually translated "God") while the other set tended to use God's four-lettered Name Y-H-W-H (usually translated "Lord," sometimes miscalled "Jehovah.") This gave rise to the theory that there were two different authors, one called E and one called J (German for Y), whose works were somehow combined to form a single text.

Later analysis of the grammar, vocabulary, and writing style provided evidence for two other authors--called P for the Priestly author (mostly Leviticus, and lots of the genealogy) and D for the Deuteronomist, since the book of Deuteronomy seemed different (grammatically and politically) from the earlier books. The multiple-author view has come to be called the "Documentary theory."

Documentary theorists see a much more complicated story, with four different texts by four different authors (although some think "schools" of authors might be responsible for each text rather than a single author). These were later combined by an editor, called the Redactor. The Redactor sometimes put the different authors' stories one after the other (as with the creation stories) and sometimes interwove them (as with the two stories of Noah's Flood and of Joseph's mistreatment by his brothers). The Redactor also added comments like "Now it came to pass, after these things . . ." as a transition between sections.

No one today knows who the initial authors were--the predominant view is that many of the stories were handed down orally for generations before being written down. It's not clear which texts are older (although the Song at the Sea in Exodus 15:1-8 is usually acknowledged as among the oldest verses), or which author wrote which verses.

1250 to 1000 BC - Conquest of the land of Canaan begins before 1200, and the tribes of Israel form a loose confederation. The histories of the tribes of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, and Moses are told orally, handed down from generation to generation.

Around 1000 to 950 BC - The tribes are united under King David. Many of the stories are written down by the author J. These stories describe the creation of the universe, the birth and history of the tribes and their special relationship with God. The stories have an intense focus on morality, on examples of behavior, reward and punishment. Even the ancestral heroes are depicted as having human faults and weaknesses.

920 BC to 722 BC - following the death of Solomon (around 920 BC), the kingdom splits in two, Judah in the south with the royal capital at Jerusalem, and Israel/Ephraim in the north with major shrines at Shechem and Bethel. The J-stories primarily reflect the Davidic (southern) point of view. In the north, some stories begin to accumulate twists reflecting the political situation there. The stories from the south stress the importance of Jerusalem, Aaron and the priesthood, and the centralization of sacrifice. Those from the north are about sacrifices conducted anywhere and de-emphasize Aaron in favor of Moses.

The essence of the stories remains the same but the details vary. In the north, the mountain of significance is Horeb, not Sinai, and greater emphasis is placed on Joseph, his mother, and his son Ephraim (one of the largest of the northern tribes). In the southern version, Judah (head of the chief tribe of the south) saves Joseph from being killed by the other brothers; in the northern version, it's Reuben (head of the chief tribe of the north.)

The northern stories--let's call them E-stories--are written down and become the E-document. Northern prophets such as Amos (2:9) and Hosea (12:2-6) use the E-stories in their messages to the people. By the eighth century BC, then, we have two sets of stories, E-versions (northern) and J-versions (southern), both evolved from a single tradition.

722 BC - Israel is conquered by Assyria and the ten tribes of the north are scattered and exiled. Many refugees flee to Judah in the south. Although they are all Israelites, those from the north have somewhat different versions of stories from those in the south. Both texts are viewed as ancient and sacred, so someone combines the two to form a single document, called JE. As they're sitting around hearing the consolidated story read, the people from the north hear familiar phrases and elements and say, yep, that's the story my grandpa told me, all right. The people from the south, ditto. The combined text helps the process of social integration and tribal distinctions disappear.

770 BC to 600 BC - A third work appears, mostly concerned with Temple rites, sacrifices, priestly garb, genealogy (focused on the priestly tribe), etc. This is identified as the P-document. The P-stories in all likelihood are very old and handed down from oral tradition. The dating of the P document is hotly debated among Documentary scholars. Some date P as late as Second Temple times (after 580 BC).

640 BC to 609 BC - Reign of King Josiah. The book of II Kings describes (23:8-13) how a "lost" scroll of Moses was found by Halkiah around 622 BC and read to King Josiah. Most scholars argue (based on internal evidence) that this was the book of Deuteronomy--in fact, this was suggested by the early Church fathers, including Jerome. (Traditionalists usually say the entire written Torah had been lost, the people had strayed so far.) Deuteronomy largely recapitulates the other books, but also contains new material. The Documentary theory labels this last author D, the Deuteronomist.

The content of Deuteronomy is very old, although the literary style seems to be from the later period of Josiah. The D-author, in attributing the writings to Moses himself, certainly felt he was simply reviving Moses' teachings, as understood 600 years later. So at this point, there are three different texts: JE, P, and D. There were doubtless other texts as well (Genesis makes reference to the "Book of the Wars of the Lord," for example) which are long lost.

587 BC to 536? BC - The southern kingdom of Judah is conquered by Babylon in 587 BC. The people are exiled for 50 years, then return to Jerusalem to rebuild the Temple and restore their religion. There is no longer a king of the line of David, but a high priest.Approximately 450 BC - This is perhaps the most remarkable part of the story, as the Redactor emerges on the scene. He sees the need for religious revival and renewal, for strengthening and centralization. So he combines the three documents (JE, P, and D) into one smooth flowing narrative--the five books of Moses.

The Redactor was respectful of his sources and kept them largely intact. These were all sacred and ancient texts/traditions, so the Redactor presumably didn't drop material--duplication was preferable to omission. Sometimes he combined the different texts; sometimes he left the two stories side by side.

The single document became the center of the Israelite religion, under the prophets Ezra and Nehemiah. Authorship was ascribed to Moses. This wasn't deception. The Redactor in all likelihood knew nothing of the prior 500 year history of authorship and honestly believed the material he was editing had all been handed down from Moses.

From 450 BC on the document was fixed--no more changes. The oldest existing parchments, the Dead Sea scrolls, date from around 100 BC. They're almost word-for-word identical to the versions we have today (although there are occasional transcription errors, most so small they would be noticed only by an experienced scholar).

Answer 2

In my opinion the bible was written by a very intelligent person of his or her time. I don't think that anyone will ever know the truth. It could be suggested albeit in a blasphemous sort of way that the bible was written to create law and order in a time where things had got out of hand. Come on, if we look at objectively if people like David Blane or other magicians of today where alive in this era who could cause illusions for example, would be considered to be the messiah in the day of Christ. If Christ even existed in the first place!!! I think it was all made up, my other theory is that JC was a conjurer, and very good at his job. Be serious!, the famous quote from a blind man 'I was blind and now i can see!!!', he could of had a bout of optical neuritis which causes temporary blindness, this cures itself on its own in most cases it just takes a while without medication. As far as I would say that you are right Moses didn't write the bible. I think a group of intelligent individuals wrote the bible and when they passed away i believe that their grand children and great grandchildren carried on with the job as if it where a family business.

Answer 3

As salaamu 'alaikym, my freind.

Modern biblical scholarship shwos us that when these books were written during the Babylonian deportation, they were compsed by three distinct groups. The Eloist, the Scribes and the Priestly sects, Such explains why one often find varying accounts of events side by side (i.e., more than one account of the creation, etc.)
Each group was working so as to gain power within their community and each promoted a version of events that supported their view and claims.
Unfortunately, these persons were more than a bit unscrupulous in their efforts and were all too willing to twist, edit and misconstrue the "Word of God" for their own purpose and aim.
Some of the eveidence of such is in the fact that the Jews rapidly broke into partisan groups that bickered and fought with one another rather than living as a unified people under the rule of YHWH. In this process, literally, whole tribes of Israel were lost, the prophets were rejected and often murdered and Israel was over run and ruled by non-Jews for the majority of its existance.

Ma'a salaam.

Addition:
If Moses (pbuh) wrote the first five book of the Old Testament (i.e, the Torah) how did he write about his own death and burial...ghost writing?

Answer 4

As far as I know my Church (Anglican) doesn't claim Mosaic authorship for the reasons already amply displayed above.
My contention is that at the end of the day it doesn't really matter who wrote them.
Knowledge of the authorship of a book written today is important because the book's credibility can be assessed by the known knowledge and reputation of the author whereas the first 5 books ofthe Bible were written so long ago that knowledge of their authorship would be useless.
For Christians it is what the books say that is important and how they see Jesus fitting into them.

Answer 5

Usually christian believe(that the believe is superinsitution as father to son)the 5 books written by Moss as of revelation from god.
All the evidences from ancient could be changed in certain circumstances. The reality is changing. We cannot find the trueth(the trueth is a certain time of reasonable concept).
Let's go back to see other hollymen: sister Dalan who will not wrote down whatever revelution from god.
Buha who did not write down any of his speaches.
Christ who did not write down any of his motions.
Louchi who did not write down any of his motions.

All these religious leaders they had known whatever he written down, the followers will step in. They all had known their step will not leading the followers to enlightenment.
They all had known everyone had their own problems. A different problem will had different dharma to solve the problem. That is why budhaist had so thousand of thousands sutras to telling about dharmas.
In Tibet budhaist; the Lama will spending the whole life to search a disciple carry on his way to make a proven enlightenment.
They also had the way to recreate their life continue their dharmas by chooseing a new born baby going into the baby body as the new recreation. Their disciple will be chosen into a secret room telling him the way of enlightenment due to his problems and how to overcome his problems. It is because his problems can be used certain way of solutions but these solutions are not suitable to other people. Same as your Tylalon suit to heal your virus but may kill me. Your religious ways can make me enlightenment, may bring you to tortures.

So I don't think the 5 books written by the followers not Moss himself if he was a hollyman at that moment.

Answer 6

Moses compiled some books of the bible, he could of not written about Adams history, also in those days they had scribes write for them.

Answer 7

Everyone thinks that it was Moses who wrote the first five books of The Bible, Torah and the same scripture also found in The Dead Sea Scrolls. But I now truly believe after intense studying of these books that Moses could not have had the knowledge of events in the past nor the scientific knowledge in his generation to have written the scripture that these books contain. This leads me to now believe that the God Yahweh had angels who's specific jobs were to record the events and conversations between Yahweh and the humans He chose to communicate with. These angels were like that of court reporters in a court room recording every word of every party present. They are the ones who wrote the majority of scripture in The Bible of who's author is unknown.

Answer 8

hey hey welcome back ST

this makes absolute sense to me how could moses have written the books of the bible if they were written in the third person that alone should prove that the bible is just a load of old wives tales

Answer 9

Good Morning dear ((((((("Friend")))))))

God told Moses, to let his brother Aaron speak for him..so it could have been his brother.. :)

But the Bible was inspired by the Holy Spirit..so whom ever it was..was doing God's work.. :)


In Jesus Most Precious Name..
With ~Love~ your "Friend" In Christ.. :)

ADDITIONAL: Though Moses was not yet born in Genesis..does not mean it could not have been written by his brother.. :)

We do have people that do write events, that took place many years before their birth do we not.. :)

Answer 10

The Pentateuch, also called The Law,
was given(written) by Moses: John 1:17.

Book of Moses' Law is what Daniel read.
It gave Daniel "night visions" (night mares);
So Daniel was finally told shut up and seal it.

JC said God said: it's as if
"five in one house divided",
three against two, and
two against three

Christ is the end of the law: Romans 10:4
Christ is not the mend of law: Luke 5:36,37.

All law, written in stone & ink, is to be done away: 2Cor 3.

So then we'll go with "grace is sufficient" (no law required).

The GRACE of our Lord Jesus Christ with you all. Amen.

Answer 11

Maybe Moses had a ghost writer.