More dogfights: MIG-29 vs. F-15C. Who wins?

Question

Given pilots of approximately equal abilities, who gets to paint a "kill" symbol on the side of his fuselage? Will it be the USAF fighter jock painting a red star on his "Eagle" or the Russian or other fighter jock painting a white star on his "Fulcrum?"

Both are fast. Performance figures are similar, but the MIG can climb faster. The F-15 has a higher service ceiling.

To even up an early MIG advantage, let's give our F-15 driver a helmet sighting system. Pretty even match, right?

Will it be a MIG driver distributing F-15 parts over the countryside or will an Eagle driver splatter the MIG-29?

This is a little more even match than the Harrier vs. F-16, but one aircraft is a little better than the other. Which do you think it is? Why?

Some important points--not a lot of Air Forces have the F-15. Most are high quality services with very well-trained pilots.

On the other hand, almost any country with a little money could buy the MIG-29.

MIG-29 is a bit of a fuel hog, and--to my knowledge--not refuelable in flight. It has very good climb rate, better than F-15. It would appear the MIG-29 is a bit more fragile when battle damaged.

F-15 has a reputation of being fairly rugged--it might survive a few bullet hits more readily than the MIG. A missile hit would destroy either aircraft.

F-15s generally are flown by well-trained pilots, generally trained in the U.S.

That probably explains the better success rate of the F-15 in combat.

Both airplanes are good dogfighters, but the F-15 is more fuel-efficient and can be refueled in flight, as most USAF fighters can be.

The best MIG-29 pilots have been the Germans, who did pretty well against F-16s and F-15s in air combat maneuvers. (Helmet sighting.)

Answer 1

Current gen F15 have fire and forget radar guided weapons known as the AMRAM while the MIG is fires semi-active homing missiles. Given typical warloads for air-superiority missions, I'd put my money on the F15.

The MIG is a fine fighter and both aircraft have engaged in combat against the other but the MIG has always fared the worst. MIG losses to F15s can be easily chalked up to pilot quality, weapons, tactics and strategy. American fighter pilots are among the best in the world and those countries flying MIG29's as primary fighters have pilots with much less training and experience (Germany flies one or more squadrons of MIG29s and their pilots are as good as anybodies'). Heat guided missiles carried by both aircraft are roughly equivalent in capability, with all aspect engagement capacity. It is in the radar guided component where there is significant difference--AMRAM is active radar homing and the Soviet/Chinese radar guided weapon is semi-active homing. The combat affect between the two is that the American aircraft can launch their AMRAM and actively evade incoming missiles. The semi-active user provides guidance to their missiles from the plane meaning the plane can't stray from the direction of their targets while their missiles are engaging their target. Both systems actively use either airborne or ground station controllers for battle command but it is highly probably that American electronics provide their fighters with more and better battlespace information--ability to track more targets per radar and greater range.

Eagle drivers: 1. Drivers of the very pretty and impressive MIGs: 0

Answer 2

Mig 29 Vs F 15

Answer 3

Does the F-15 get to carry and ALQ-184 pod?

Assuming the fight gets tight an nasty, and also assuming equal abilities, whichever plane has the lowest wing loading probably gets the nod.

Never happened, though, because the plane is the least important factor in air to air combat. It's all about the pilot. Can he keep situational awareness and utlize the planes capabilities? Experience counts, and countries equipped with the MiG29 typically don't train their pilots to the level of the countries equipped with the F-15C.

Equip yourself with the best tennis racket money can buy, John MacEnroe is still going to kick your butt!

Answer 4

This Site Might Help You.

RE:
More dogfights: MIG-29 vs. F-15C. Who wins?
Given pilots of approximately equal abilities, who gets to paint a "kill" symbol on the side of his fuselage? Will it be the USAF fighter jock painting a red star on his "Eagle" or the Russian or other fighter jock painting a white star on his "Fulcrum?"

Both are...

Answer 5

Newer f15c has an advantage over older mig-29A because of radar.
F-15 can lauch missile b4 mig can detect it.
But if the encounter is shorter ranged and within migs rader coverage Mig will win for sure.Only trouble wiht older migs is their radar.But if f-15 is under migs radar over mig will win for sure.
The newer/upgraded mig29s can beat f15-c at both long ranges and short ranges the only american plane which can beat them is f-22.

So technically migs are better but unfortunately migs in poor hands arent good such as Iraq and stuff who cant use them to their fullest extend

Answer 6

the problem with the mig 29 is not the plane itself, but the pilot flying it. in a dog fight - if a german pilot or russian pilot in a mig29 were to go against a german or usa pilot in an f15... the results could be different. kill ratios mean nothing if the guy flying the mig doesn't know what he's doing. i highly doubt the iraqi or syrian military have pilots trained as well as usa, german or uk pilots. this makes comparing the kill ratio data useless.

Answer 7

Well lets look at history.

No Mig-29 has ever achieved an air to air kill, in any conflict.

F-15's are 103-0 in air to air combat.

F=15's have shot down:

F-4E's - two
Mig 21 - Thirty eight
Mig 23 - twenty five
Mig 25 - four
Mig 29 - nine
SU-7 - one
SU-22 - four
SU-25 - two
Mirage F1 - eight

Now who in thier right mind, would want to fly a Mig -29,

When they could fly a F-15 C/D/E model ?

.
The MIG -29 was developed to counter the F-16, not the
F-15.

And it shows in its miserable performance in combat.

Answer 8

The combat record of the MiG-29 speaks for itself. American F-15s and F- 16s (a Dutch F-16 shot down a MiG-29 during Operation Allied Force) have downed MiG-29s every time there has been encounters between the types. The only known MiG-29 “victories” occurred during Operation Desert Storm when an Iraqi MiG-29 shot down his own wingman on the first night of the war and a Cuban MiG-29 brought down 2 “mighty” Cessnas. Are there more victories for the Fulcrum? Not against F-15s or F-16s

Lt. Col. Johann Köck, commander of the German MiG-29 squadron from
September 1995 to September 1997, was outspoken in his evaluation of the Fulcrum. “It has no range, its navigation system is unreliable and the radar breaks often and does not lend it self to autonomous operations”, he said. He added that the best mission for NATO MiG-29s would be as a dedicated adversary aircraft for other NATO fighters and not as part of NATO’s frontline fighter force

Turning Capability

The MiG-29 and F-16 and F-15 are both considered 9 G aircraft. Until the centerline tank is empty, the Fulcrum is limited to four Gs and the Viper/Eagle to seven Gs. The
MiG-29 is also limited to seven Gs above Mach 0.85 while the F-16, once the centerline tank is empty (or jettisoned) can go to nine Gs regardless of airspeed or Mach number. The MiG-29’s seven G limit is due to loads on the vertical stabilizers. MAPO has advertised that the Fulcrum could be stressed to 12 Gs and still not hurt the airframe. This statement is probably wishful and boastful. The German Luftwaffe, which flew its MiG-29s probably more aggressively than any other operator, experienced cracks in the structure at the base of the vertical tails.

Handling

Of the four fighters I have flown, the MiG-29 has by far the worst handling qualities. The hydro-mechanical flight control system uses an artificial feel system of springs and pulleys to simulate control force changes with varying airspeeds and altitudes. There is a stability augmentation system that makes the aircraft easier to fly but also makes the aircraft more sluggish to flight control inputs. It is my opinion that the jet is more responsive with the augmentation system disengaged. Unfortunately, this was allowed for demonstration purposes only as this also disengages the angle-of-attack (AoA) limiter. Stick forces are relatively light but the stick requires a lot of movement to get the desired response. This only adds to sluggish feeling of the aircraft. The entire time you are flying, the stick will move randomly about one-half inch on its own with a corresponding movement of the flight control surface. Flying the Fulcrum requires constant attention. If the pilot takes his hand off the throttles, the throttles probably won't stay in the position in which they were left. They'll probably slide back into the 'idle' position.

The Fulcrum is relatively easy to fly during most phases of flight such as takeoff, climb, cruise and landing. However, due to flight control limitations, the pilot must work hard to get the jet to respond the way he wants. This is especially evident in aggressive maneuvering, flying formation or during attempts to employ the gun. Aerial gunnery requires very precise handling in order to be successful. The MiG-29’s handling qualities in no way limit the ability of the pilot to perform his mission, but they do dramatically increase his workload.

There is no auto-trim system in the MiG-29 as in the F-16/15. Trimming the aircraft is practically an unattainable state of grace in the Fulcrum. The trim of the aircraft is very sensitive to changes in airspeed and power and requires constant attention. Changes to aircraft configuration such as raising and lowering the landing gear and flaps cause significant changes in pitch trim that the pilot must be prepared for. As a result, the MiG-29 requires constant attention to fly. The F-16 auto-trims to one G or for whatever G the pilot has manually trimmed the aircraft for.

The ultimate comparison of two fighter aircraft comes down to a combat duel between them. After the Berlin Wall came down the reunified Germany inherited 24 MiG-29s from the Nationale Volksarmee of East Germany. The lessons of capitalism were not lost on MAPO-MiG (the Fulcrum’s manufacturer) who saw this as an opportunity to compare the Fulcrum directly with western types during NATO training exercises. MAPO was quick to boast how the MiG-29 had bested F-15s and F-16s in mock aerial combat. They claimed a combination of the MiG’s superior sensors, weapons and low radar cross section allowed the Fulcrum to beat western aircraft. However, much of the early exploitation was done more to ascertain the MiG-29’s capabilities versus attempting to determine what the outcome of actual combat would be. The western press was also quick to pick up on the theme. In 1991, Benjamin Lambeth cited an article in Jane’s Defence Weekly which stated that the German MiG-29s had beaten F-16s with simulated BVR range shots of more than 60 km. How was this possible when the MiG-29 cannot launch an AA-10A Alamo from outside about 25 km? Was this a case of the fish getting bigger with every telling of the story? The actual BVR capability of the MiG-29 was my biggest disappointment. Was it further exposure to the German Fulcrums in realistic training that showed the jet for what it truly is? It seems that MAPO’s free advertising backfired in the end as further orders were limited to the 18 airplanes sold to Malaysia.

If F-16s/F-15s and MiG-29s face off in aerial combat, both would detect each other on the radar at comparable range. Armed with the AIM-120 AMRAAM, the F-16/15s would have the first shot opportunity at more than twice the range as the Fulcrums. A single F-16/15 would be able to discriminately target individual and multiple Fulcrums. The MiG-29’s radar will not allow this. If there is more than one F-16/15 in a formation, a Fulcrum pilot would not know exactly which fighter the radar had locked and he can engage only one at a time. AF-15/16 pilot can launch AMRAAMS against multiple MiG-29s on the first pass and support his missiles via data link until the missiles go active. He can break the radar lock and leave or continue to the visual arena and employ short range infrared guided missiles or the gun. The Fulcrum pilot must wait until about 13 nautical miles (24 kilometers) before he can shoot his BVR missile. The Alamo is a semi-active missile that must be supported by the launching aircraft until impact. This brings the Fulcrum pilot closer to the AMRAAM. In fact, just as the the Fulcrum pilot gets in range to fire an Alamo, the AMRAAM is seconds away from impacting his aircraft. The advantage goes to the West.

Answer 9

The ratio of kills is the important thing:

Mig29 20 shot down - F15 0 shot down.

EDIT: Jeeper is correct. I knew that no F15 has been shot down but I erred on the side of the migs.

Answer 10

15c