If I as a Jew may just clarify?

Question

I've seen several questions asking if we as Jews are a 'race' or a 'religion'.

Many people answer 'race'. If I could just clarify that this is incorrect, in fact, because:

a) if we were a race, then nobody could convert to Judaism; clearly people do and once they have done so, they are every bit as Jewish as someone born into the faith

b) there are Jews from all ethnic backgrounds, ranging from Japanese to Swedish, Yemenite to Indian. So clearly we are not one cohesive, separate 'race'.

Make sense? :)

STEVE N - it makes no sense to say that we are a 'race', for the reasons I've explained. We have Jews from every ethnic background possible, so we are clearly not a separate 'race'. sorry, but it's you whose logic is at fault here :)

P June - yes, we can be born into the religion just as an Italian person can be born into an Italian family - would you then argue that Italians are a separate race??? Obviously not!

GHOSTWOL, no, there is no such thing as a 'Jewish Christian' - the two belief systems are mutually exclusive. A person is one or the other but can't be both. Ditto with Islam. A person is Muslim OR Jewish. I don't know where you get these ideas from but as a Jewish person I promise you, they are false.

Answer 1

The Jewish people are considered a nation. Our connection is primarily one of faith through the covenant of Israel, yet membership is also conferred by birth, through matrilineal descent.One may also become a part of the nation Israel by adoption of the faith of Judaism and formal procedures of conversion.

One who converts to Judaism is considered as fully Jewish as one born Jewish and their children are Jews. This has been the case since the times of the Torah.

There are different Jewish cultures that have developed over the millenia in Diaspora lands as well as from the Mizrahi (from the Middle East and North Africa) The Sephardi (Spanish) Ashkenazi, (German, Polish, Russian and other Eastern European) are all slightly different, even within those three designations as to cultural practices and foods, but it is the faith and covenant that binds them all together as Klal Yisrael.

We are Klal Yisrael, the community of Israel, and have a shared " destiny" and history, while still having developed throughout history, many DIFFERENT Jewish cultures developed in the Diaspora. The Diaspora refers to the Jewish presence outside of Israel after the destruction of the First and Second Temple periods and the Bar Kochba revolt.

The Jewish nation began as a group of tribes and our connection to one another is still from the perspective of a tribal nation. One may join through adoption of the covenant or one may be born into it.

One born into the covenant may become apostate to it ( be an atheist, convert to another religion ) and still be considered a Jew, but for all intents and purposes, they're not given the status of a member because they're not counted in a minyan, can't be buried in a Jewish cemetary, etc. They CAN however, return ( teshuvah) without formal conversion should they so desire. ( rather like someone who leaves the country, if they don't give up citizenship, can return without going through citizenship application all over again )

The only way one who isn't born to a Jewish mother can become Jewish is through adoption of the faith, dedication to living AS a Jew through the eternal covenant. Then the children of a Jewish woman who converts is considered every bit as Jewish as one whose ancestry came from Sarah. A convert TO Judaism who becomes fully a Jew does not have the option of becoming apostate to Judaism and still being considered Jewish. You don't have atheist Jewish converts.


Am Yisrael Chai ( the people Israel live!)

Here are some Jewish sources to discuss this issue that may help you.

These two links explain from the Jewish perspective, Jewish identity. Jewish law determines who is and who isn't Jewish.

I highly recommend reading both of these, especially to all who declared Green Eyes was incorrect.

http://www.jewfaq.org/judaism.htm

http://www.beingjewish.com/identity/race...

http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org/ < This is always a good place for comparative study, too.
This is a link to a source that is a scholarly study of the development of Jewish languages. It will help you if you are interested in studying the different Jewish cultures.

http://www.jewish-languages.org/

Jews are in NO way a RACE..other than as members of the human race. For those of you who want to claim Judaism doesn't accept converts as fully Jewish, how about Ruth in the Bible? She was a member of a nation that was condemned to be separate from God for their evil. However, she was a righteous woman who converted and adopted the faith of Israel and was the ancestor of King David. The New Testament depicts her as being an ancestor of Jesus, too. I like to bring this up when some Christians want to declare that converts aren't "real Jews" or that Jews are a race. (something that isn't up to them to decide one way or another anyway)

Shalom :)

I would remind P. June that it is Jewish law, not Christianity or any other entity that determines the status of who and what is Jewish.

One cannot be Jewish and Christian at the same time. One may be an apostate Jew who is Christian. A Jew who converts to Islam is a Muslim. A Jew who converts to Christianity is a Christian.
Let me give you a hypothetical to better illustrate:
Let's say a Jew decides to invent a new religion that makes Google it's ORACLE and everyone must consult Google for every aspect of their life and pay obeisance to Google..Does that make Google worship a Jewish religion? Are Googles now Jewish? Or is that Jew apostate to Judaism and by identifying himself as Jewish, misrepresenting the Jewish nation/people?

Green was very clear and quite correct from the Jewish perspective, you cannot convert to a race. You can become a member of a tribe or nation if you meet the criteria of citizenship. And the covenant people, Klal Yisrael, remain as in the earliest days of the covenant..a nation. It hasn't changed.

Shalom :)
EDIT to Truthseeker..yes, a great many Jews share genetic markers with many people native to the middle east because that is where the tribal nation originated. That doesn't negate that Jews are a nation bound by a covenant. :)

Answer 2

You should have included Catholic and Protestant Christian religions as well in your rationale so those who really don't understand your question will not feel intimidated or confused as hell.

Jewish is the same as saying Catholic , Orthodox, Protestant Mormon, Buddhist, Islamic and so on for establishing religious faiths as with Jewish.

Race however is reserved for the ethnic background with Chinese, Mongolian, Italian, British, American, Russian, Israelites and so-forth, who would be descendants of those homosapiens who have lived a long time and bread with other races within that country.

Although this might justify to some degree, by identifying a race of people. Then there becomes the issue of multicultural ergophobia within the mix of races combined.

To say that those descendants who derivative from South Africa are distinctive from the Anglo Saxon breed of 2,000 years, who are then mixed into the melting pot of Europe blood, then add the South African race as they breed and mix bloods then become one nation of British, should then cover one and all who are born there. Otherwise segregation of the ethnics causes wars and civil conflicts death and destruction of that country.

Albeit, the Australian Aborigines are a race totally by themselves when comparing Australia's mixed races combining into the Aussie myth of being white and black become one under the one flag and not two as it is today.

Answer 3

yeah, the word race, especially in the US, has different meanings, and doesn't really apply to the jewish people. nor is it an ethnicity, because there are jews from many different ethnic groups too.

i prefer nation, Am Yisroel. not the political nation of israel, but nationality like french or russian or kurd. those are not races, and are not exactly the same as countries either.

Answer 4

no, Jews are not a race. we are however a people. tied together by a religious, and most of the time genetic, bond. most people mistake this by referring to the maternal lineage of Jews. however it is safe to say that most Jews inside their own group, ashkenazi sephardic etc, are most likely related very distantly. there is a large study going on about maternal DNA and ashkenazi Jews, turns out a significant proportion of ashkenazi are haplotype K, this is interesting because the maternal haplogroup and subgroups of K are all passed down mother to daughter to daughter to daughter etc. i am in fact a part of this haplogroup.
so the easy answer is definitely no we are not a race, there were converts and Jews exist in many colors and places in the world. but the deeper answer may be that we are a people that are in fact connected in one way or the other by family, at least most. but more importantly we are connected by tradition and culture.

Answer 5

Jews are an ethnic minority with a strong cultural heritage. We come from all corners of the earth and it's wrong to talk about us as a race per se, we are bound together by a simlilar history and religious beliefs.

Answer 6

Jews are descendants of Abraham in exactly the same way Americans are descendants of George Washington. We are a community united by our history as a people.

Children born to a Jewish woman are entitled to all the privileges (and obligations) of being members of the Jewish community, just as children born in the USA are entitled to all the privileges (and obligations) of being a citizen of the USA.

Anyone can become a Jew by working with a rabbi to learn exactly what obligations they will assume as a Jew, and by swearing allegiance to the Jewish people, just as one can become an American citizen by learning our laws and customs and swearing allegiance to the USA.
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Answer 7

Your argument does make sense. However, it fails to take into account that people are ALSO Jewish by lineage - meaning born into a family descending from the 12 tribes of Israel.

So, while your points are not incorrect, they are incomplete.

"Jewish" can be both a heritage (lineage) and a religion. The two are not mutually exclusive, though. You can be a Jew by one criteria and not another. In other words - you do not have to be born into a Jewish family to be a practicer of the religion of Judaism. You also do not have to be a practicer of the religion to be a "Jew" by race.


Note:

The comparison to Italians actually does not support your point. It DOES support mine, though. People cannot "convert" to being Italian - making it not a religion. People CAN convert to Judaism - a sign it is a religion.

People can be BORN Italians. Making it a line of descent. (A lineage.) People can ALSO be born Jewish.... making it ALSO a lineage.


Remember: there are people who consider themselves Jewish Christians, Jewish Muslims, etc. People who would call themselves Jewish atheists, even! Just as someone would say they are an Irish Protestant. Or an Italian Catholic.



get it?




BTW _ I am purposefully not using the term "race" - I don't think that's an accurate description. But it IS both a religion and a heritage (lineage, line of descent). It is not ONLY a religion.

Answer 8

Was David a Jew by race or religion?

If so, why did he have fair skin and red hair? Sounds Irish to me.

The 70 families that went into Egypt represented all races. At least that's what it says in the Midrash.

Oh, can anyone tell me the ancient Hebrew word for religion? (There is none.) The Torah is just the way things are. It's not a religion.

Shalom

Answer 9

I don't see why you're making this into a problem.

It's both a religion and a "race" (in fact "ethnicity" is probably a better term). Judaism is the religion, Jewishness is the ethnicity.

I am not religious, so I count myself a Jew but not a follower of Judaism. People who have converted may be followers of Judaism but not ethnically Jews.

Answer 10

Sorry, but I can only partially agree; you can be Jewish without being born into an ethnically Jewish family. But, ethnically, people can be Jewish WITHOUT being religiously Jewish...just as a person of non-Jewish ethnicity can be religiously Jewish.
I think where you go wrong (at least, according to how I understand it) is by assuming that the one excludes the other: you are a Jew if you are one OR both of the two.
:-)