How come Christians are criminals and atheists aren't?

Question

Several different studies have ALL found that the population of Christians in prison far outweighs the population of atheists.

IMPORTANT NOTE!!!! The studies accounted for the difference in overall population. "Note that atheists, being a moderate proportion of the USA population (about 8-16%) are disproportionately less in the prison populations (0.21%). "

http://www.holysmoke.org/icr-pri.htm

Also:

http://www.skepticfiles.org/american/pri...

Why are atheists able to embrace morality and be law-abiding while Christians can't stay out of jail and not commit crimes against their fellow man?

IMPORTANT NOTE: One study showed that this is NOT due to conversions in prison!!!!

"And how many are Jehovah's Witnesses...."

.890%. Look at the stats from the Federal Bureau of Prisons, which is in a link I provided.

"well it kinda makes sense that there would be more christians than athiest since there are more of us"

READ THE QUESTION!!! This was accounted for.

"Little Miss Investigative reporter ehh?"

Isn't there a saying....'ad hominem is the last resort of the failed argument'......and to think...your 'argument' started with it. lol

"However, I believe that it is due to the fact that there are less Atheists in population then there are Christians. If there is less of a group then of course the ratios are slighted."

This was accounted for!!! Read the question. Please, people, pay attention!!!

"Most People in jails or prisons convert only after going to prison"

No, no, no. As I said, they looked at that. Please read the question and THINK before you answer.

"First, I dont believe that one study showed it didnt have to do with conversions (would like the link); "

I gave you the link.

"Real Christians are not criminals."

ROFL!!! That's a great argument.

"I would like to know the credentials of the those doing the study."

That number came from:

Denise Golumbaski
Research Analyst
Federal Bureau of Prisons

The link:

http://www.skepticfiles.org/american/prison.htm

"During the intake process, the person is asked their religious affiliation - most will say the religion of their childhood, even though they haven't practiced in years. "

Excellent point. We need to stop this religious indoctrination of children which turns them into criminals. lol

Actually, you have no idea if they are practicing.

The sample population result will reflect "the bias towards more Christians in the Greater Population that exists, therefore, call into question any conclusion that may be drawn"

(I am beating my head against a wall.....)

THIS WAS ACCOUNTED FOR!!!! READ MY IMPORTANT NOTE!!!!!

"By your argument, blacks are "less moral" than whites because there is a disproportionate representation of blacks in prison than whites!"

Can you actually be equating race with a personal belief system?

"Total number of catholics. / Total number of catholics in jail. / Resulting percentage."

Right! 83.761% of population in jail. 78% of US population is christian. (CIA Fact Book)

But that's not the issue, is it? The issue is that when you compare christians with atheists, and considering the population difference, atheists don't seem to be going to jail:

"Note that atheists, being a moderate proportion of the USA population (about 8-16%) are disproportionately less in the prison populations (0.21%). "

and christians ARE going to jail:

83.761% of population in jail. 78% of US population is christian.

"I know if I had cited such a source while in grad school I would have been laughed off campus "

If you had cited hard data from a Research Analyst at the Federal Bureau of Prisons you would have been laughed off campus? Yikes!!!!

This is why I bang my head against the wall. You refuse to think.

Answer 1

It is generally accepted that non-believers are more moral , have bigger homes , bank accounts , better positions , are more intelligent than believers .
Criminals are far more aftaid of the police than they are , the wrath of god . The biggest mafia leaders are all regular church goers , and contributers .
I wonder how much forgiveness costs ?

Answer 2

One thing I think this study does show is that people are more likely to admit to being Christian once they are imprisoned. I'm not talking about people converting to Christianity, but people claiming to have always been Christian because Christian nuts are in control of the prison system, and they decide the quality of life and parole opportunities of the inmates.

I'm quite a radical atheist, but only because I am free to express my beliefs. If I were imprisoned somewhere in the Islamic world, I'd rather cut the end of my penis off and pray to Allah several times a day than be subjected to the daily bullying and harassment I'd suffer as an outcast.

Confronted with the choice of an honest life of suffering or a dishonest happy one, only the most hard-faced atheist or agnostic would forgo the happiness. I'm just glad I'm in a position where I can have the happiness and honesty together.

Answer 3

Well, you kind of misunderstood something.

By your argument, blacks are "less moral" than whites because there is a disproportionate representation of blacks in prison than whites!

You have to be careful with this kind of thing.

Let's take a look.

Yes, the percentage of atheists in jail is lower then the percentage of atheists in the total population, that isn't enough info to base any kind of moral conclusion.

What you need to know is:

Total number of catholics. / Total number of catholics in jail. / Resulting percentage.

And so on down the list.

Then, you have to see what social factors promote criminality. Like poverty, poor schools, social oppression. These factors have to be taken into account what you run the numbers. If you live in a depressed area of limited opportunities, you have really good chance of becoming a crook, regardless of your religious feelings.

That has to be taken into account.

Then you have to see which prisoners are really a member of the group they claim to be identified with. Anyone can check a box on a form. Without an interviews, you really know nothing.

People use statistics like a drunk uses a lamppost, more for support than illumination. You have to do the research.

Now here is the good news. You don't have to try and prove that atheists are somehow more moral than believers. You don't have to build yourself up by putting someone else down.

Best wishes
Joe

Answer 4

During the intake process, the person is asked their religious affiliation - most will say the religion of their childhood, even though they haven't practiced in years. The question asked isn't "What religion do you actively practice"

Edit: and you have knowledge that they were practicing?

Don't bang your head against the wall - I am simply questioning the validity of your sources. I know if I had cited such a source while in grad school I would have been laughed off campus - but then again, that was 20 years ago, maybe biased reporting is allowed now.

I would not call Holysmoke.com a hard research source.

Answer 5

a few things here
1) Atheists are generally more educated as a group than the greater population, therefore less likely to end up in prison as they have greater socioeconomic status.

2) Some of Reginald Bibby's work demonstrates that people identify with their parents religion even though they don't necessarily subscribe to the practice of this religion, thus, many of the admitted Christians in the prison system haven't gone to church since they were kids.

3) The sample population result will reflect the bias towards more Christians in the Greater Population that exists, therefore, call into question any conclusion that may be drawn

You mention black representation in the prison population, and distorted my argument in the process, but, if you examine this along socioeconomic status instead of race and compare with the greater population you will see that blacks tend to have lower socioeconomic status in the greater population and it is the socioeconomic status that is the variable that contributes here.

Answer 6

Not only are Christians the majority in the States (and still such in the Western World and theists the vast majority in the world) but in the USA being Christian(but not "too involved" or "fanatical") is still considered 'normal" and people,no matter how they violate
the commandments,beatitudes
and behaviors or ethics
of Christianity, want often to be part of the majority.

In prison ,it is a useful label even more than in society since prison folk often use any "tag' to get a parole or better treatment.

In the Soviet Union before its collapse, the majority of prisoners accepted willingly the tag of atheist and it is still true in China where atheist is the government-favored religious status. Apart from political prisoners,Christians are a far smaller proportion of the prison population than they are of the general population.

Poor and underpriviledged people,who tend to be the vast majority of US prison immates, usually do not choose the "luxury" of atheism since giving up the emotional practicality of the offer of grace and heavenly care and love and reward for converting( a little,anyway) to Christ/God/Allah would be too high a price for "godless haughtiness".

Christians imprisoned for real crimes are violating Christian teachings,moral law and objective ethics,but imprisoned atheists cannot say the same since their cannot be any Natural Law,objective right and wrong or any ultimate rule but "might makes right' if their is not Ultimate Law Giver,Ultimate Standard of Justice and Deathless Love.

Answer 7

First, I dont believe that one study showed it didnt have to do with conversions (would like the link); thats obviously the majority of what it is. It can also be the fact that just about everyone who hasnt stepped foot in a church in 25 years says they are Christian. These are people who dont study theology and get involved in a religious life in ANY way; yet on a form put Christian because they went to church camp with their cousin; or they were dragged there by parents until they were 10 Make sense? In general, you will not find a born again believer murdering, stealing, raping, etc. However, you will find people who are stuck in jail reevaluate and find the hope and joy in Jesus' sacrifice. He is all they have at that point; that is when we are the most ready for Him; when we need Him

Answer 8

If that is true. I don't know, but I know that I am not and will never be a criminal, and I am a Christian. I am not going to judge my life on what the world is doing, nor will I care the burdens of the world on my shoulders. Rather, I would worry about that person in my mirror, and what others do or don't do is their responsibilities

By the way, there are atheist who are criminals, and some of them can be considered Dictators. look it up.

By the way, I wouldn't be worry about those who are in prison, for they got caught. I would be more worry about those who are out and still doing their deeds. Atheist are human, and they too commit crimes, it could be they just don't get caught as much as others. This is just logic.

Something else to consider. What kind of crimes do each commit! There are vary degrees of crimes, and not all of them are equal.
If you like to study statistic! look at all aspect of it not just the total number.

Answer 9

Many religious people think they can commit whatever they
choose, wash their hands, claim religion and all is well
again.

An atheist, on the other hand, may be bothered by his actions
and has a conscience. Guilt is a good thing. It shows you have an active mind and understand you did wrong. You must pay for what you did.

Religion paves the way for one to commit wrong, then
claim they 'found god' so all is right. Carry on. There is no self accountability once this 'cleansing' takes place. If they are
sent to prison, claiming they 'fell from grace' is the excuse.

You did the crime, you do the time.

It's not about being perfect. It's about being accountable.
To yourself. To your fellow man.

Answer 10

I am not really sure if someone can truly offer an unbiased answer to your question. However, I believe that it is due to the fact that there are less Atheists in population then there are Christians. If there is less of a group then of course the ratios are slighted. If you were using an equation which involved, let's say, a city where 50% of the population are Christian and the remaining 50% were Atheist. A better and more accurate conclusion could be made given the situation.

This is why there are more Christians in prison..there are more Christians..period.

Answer 11

I cannot believe how gullible people are. These "studies" you are citing are nothing but propaganda.

Interestingly one of your pages states that the DOJ does not keep statistics on the religion of prisoners and then proceeds to list statistics on prisoners. How much more do you need to define propaganda?

The actual DOJ statistics does not keep records on religion:
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/pjim06.pdf

For example, the data cited in your ridiculous propaganda posts is easily discredited using, of course, another propaganda website.

http://www.adherents.com/misc/adh_prison.html

Notice that the chart in mid page lists statistics which the author claims came from the same source as those listed on your piece of propaganda.

Notice also that the source lists atheists as comprising about 20% of the prison population.

There is no doubt that at least one of these sets of statistics must be incorrect. Notice that neither of them list the study or source properly. If you want to see how a source is cited properly open up the bibliography of any successful masters or doctoral thesis.

My understanding is that these studies conducted in the mid 90's, by the DOJ, in which researchers (Denise Golumbaski) showed that about 80% of people who were incarcerated during the time of the study had no religious beliefs before incarceration.

During incarceration most of those developed some kind of religious beliefs and the data reversed to be 80% professing a religious belief and 20% maintaining their status of no religious beliefs.

Further, adherents.com makes an issue of the researcher no longer being with the DOJ. Studies of this type are quite often conducted under contract. There is, to the best of my knowledge, no published paper on this study released.

Atheist websites have published various excerpts from preliminary papers done on this issue. In general the published "reports" of this study are contradictory.

After reading many different contradicting reports of this study I have come to the belief that IF the study exists the primary result of the study showed (duh) that the majority of criminal behavior is a result of feeling a lack of "belonging".

After incarceration people tend to gather together in groups which give them a feeling of belonging and that prisons should encourage people in belonging to groups, particular religious groups, which encourage moral behavior.

Since encouragement of religion is considered unconstitutional the net result of the study was no action on the part of the government and the study was buried since it was government funded and suggested encouraging religion.

In fact, since the mid nineties the DOJ appears to have discouraged religious sociological studies in prisons which is why all the available data is from preliminary reports on a non-published study.

There are also references in some state correctional publications to these studies and some state correctional departments are encouraging belonging to religions. Example:
http://www.accss.org/practicing%20faith.htm

The ACLU has worked against any government money going into funding programs that encourage religion, but, this has not stopped government employees from working with groups. The counter argument is freedom of religion so government workers have to work with faith based organizations to allow them access to prisoners and allow prisoners access to faith.

An interesting sidebar is that prisoners will create religious beliefs, often Native American, and insist on religious privileges based on these religions. Most Native American religions are not well documented since most have membership of less than 100 people.

Depending on the poll questions and delivery of questions the results of these kinds of studies can be skewed terribly, especially among uneducated people who have no strong feelings on the subject.

For example, the documents cited at "holysmoke" and "adherents" did not have the choice "none". 20% did not respond to the question and that 20% were listed as "none" mid page of the "adherents" and listed as "not responded" at the bottom of the "adherents"/"holysmoke" sites.

This is a perfect example of skewing the results of a poll. By not giving the choice "none", which to any educated person is the same as "atheist", the pollsters forced people to either not respond or to respond by selecting an answer they knew but which may not have fit. In other words, the poll assumed those being polled were literate and statistics show the average college grad is illiterate, the average prisoner even less.

Further, on the "skeptics" site any religious training or affiliation any time during a person's life results in a "not an atheist" answer. In my experience most atheist/agnostics have had some religious affiliation during their life and have made a conscious choice to atheism or agnosticism.

The end results are polls that are less than conclusive and are easily manipulated by propagandists and which uneducated people will cling to as evidence for the validity of their beliefs.