Uncontrollable dog!?

Question

I have an 8 month old Doberman male with Yuguslavian bloodlines in him. He's not fully European though, I would say he's mostly from Irish dogs. (Im in Ireland).

He jumps up on the counters and table in the kitchen to destroy anything he can. We cant keep anything in there, we have the bin in the hall. He put his paw up on the TV, where theres a kind of handle, pulled it and knocked the TV over, thank god it didn't smash, it landed face down on the counter.
He uses his paws like hands.
He steals and destroys anything he can get hold of. He has eaten whole loafs of bread. He scatters the contents of bags if they are accidently left in the kitchen. No matter how far you push the stuff in on the counter, he will get it.

He destroyed his bed, he's gone through 3.

If he sees another dog, or maybe a person on a walk, he is gone like a shot and no amount of calling brings him back.
He pulls on the lead, he pulls less with the prong collar on, but he still pulls.

I use it correctly, giving him "pops" on the lead, etc.

He chewed the outer plastic stuff on the back door off. He's actually scraped plaster and paint off the wall with his teeth.

He can open doors with handles no problem.

Our other dog, a small terrier, cant be in the kitchen with him because he harrasses her , playing, but he's a little rough and she's so loud, its turmoil.

He obeys me with sit, down, stay, etc. well. I train him with the help of Ed Frawlys DVD. I give him commands properly, and he is not a dominant dog. I am the alpha, its just like he's a child with severe ADD. Is this possible with dogs?

As soon as we leave the kitchen, he's up on the worktops. We got him a shock collar, not strong enough, we sent him a to a trainer, he was a rip off merchant, I have done my very best to socialise him with dogs and people, I am going to bring him to a training class, not to learn how to train him, just to get him used to ignoring other dogs and people.

He is really well trained with sit, down, stay, sit stay, down stay, paw, etc., he knows what 'NO' means, he just chooses to ignore it.

Believe me its not because I havn't trained him, he is more well trained than most dogs I know.

He gets attention, my mother is in the kitchen most of the day, most days.
He usually gets 2 walks a day for at least 20 minutes, through fields.

What is wrong? What can I do? My parents are seriously thinking of getting rid of him.
Don't tell me there are no bad dogs, only bad owners, because we have done the very best we can for him. He gets Burns organic food, I reasearched everything possible about dobermans before getting him, I know more than most people about dogs, so gimme a break.

Will he calm down at about 2 years old?

Misa M - I have an excellent recall on this dog, WHEN there are no other dogs, he turns around and comes promptly, so don't tell me I have no recall!
Its just he has these days where he is so bad! He ran off through 3 fields and through the estate when my dad took him out this morning!

He is OBVIOUSLY not allowed free run of the house! He's only allowed in the kitchen and the back yard because he would destroy the house! And he freezes when its cold outside so I can't just leave him out there and forget about him!

I use rewards all the time, and corrections. Like I said, Ed Frawleys methods.

Yes greekman I know how to use the shock collar, I thought it was strong enough, he just desensitised himself to it. He is hugly strong willed.
And of course I use corrections, I'm not an idiot.
I have never met a dog like this before.
A crate? How will that help? So I keep him in a cage, taking him out only sometimes? I'm sorry but that would not work, he would co mental! I think he needs more stimulation, a crate would completly bore him. He only plays with his toys when I'm there to play with him.

Thanks for the answers

Thanks, ainawgsd. I actually do make him wait before eating, doors, etc. Your answer was helpful.
I hope I don't have to get rid of him.

Cheers

Answer 1

You have nothing to be ashamed of. You have done everything that you possibly can to tend to this dogs needs. Good for you. The only thing that I can suggest--other than obedience classes with a reputable trainer, is getting him neutered. It usually tends to calm them down, although it does not happen immediately. I really feel for you and your situation--you are doing everything that you can to make this work out. Be patient, and good luck.

Answer 2

Uncontrollable Dog

Answer 3

Every lab I've ever known chewed things, never listened, licked, sprinted up walls, killed small animals etc as a puppy. My dog ate her way through a plastic front door (literally, there was a hole in the bottom of it) and a wooden one, she destroyed a bed, wooden chairs, pillows, sleeping bags, duvets (she has a thing about destroying things which have fluff inside them) books and lots and lots of shoes. She stole and destroyed our neighbours' clothes and shoes. Basically I know a little of what you're going through. Try giving her a room to sleep in which has nothing she can destroy, at least that way you won't have to worry about her during the night. Don't leave her in the house unsupervised, and try to keep her in the same room as you or within earshot. Give her a lot to do, they chew more when they're bored. Find an easy trick that she likes to do. It doesn't really matter what it is, as long as she'll do it on command- even if it's something ridiculous like "run around in circles like a lunatic". Get her to do this trick constantly (give her very good treats for it) and then move onto other ones- this is just to try and get her into the habit of listening to you. Do it at completely random times, without any warning (don't go to the cookie jar or fridge first or anything)- the idea is she never knows when you're going to give the command, so she has to listen to you all the time or she misses the oppertunity to have the treat. Just give the command once and if she misses the command she misses the treat. Then you can do more with her, and teach her more practical stuff. I don't know anything about dog obedience classes, but your dad might. If she licks you and jumps up and gets really hyper turn to face the wall, brace yourself against it (if she's big and boisterous) and ignore her and don't move until she calms down. I'd say that when she attacks your other dog it's probably a combination of jealousy and dominance- the higher-ranking dogs greet the alpha first, so Sage feels she should greet you before the chihuahua. Another dog of mine does the same, we reprimand her and although it's improved it hasn't stopped. Sad to say she'll probably be like this for a while yet- a year or two at least, I'd say, energy and chewing wise, but you can improve it with constant training. Just stick with it and you'll have a wonderful companion. She'll only be like this for 3 or 4 years at most, and if you get her through this well you'll have a good dog for years after that. That's what happened for us anyway. Good luck!

Answer 4

First, you absolutely NEVER send your dog to a trainer! You go with your dog so you can be taught how to train your dog. It's you the dog needs to listen to.

The problem sounds pretty basic. This is an exuberant, very energetic 8 month old puppy who's not getting nearly enough exercise! Consider him to be the equivalent of a teenager - he's growing up and he's clearly bored. He needs a lot more exercise and the mental stimulation he'd get from obedience classes would help him (and you) a great deal.

He's not a bad dog, only one who's frustrated because of boredom. And why isn't he crated? That helps with housetraining immensely. It would also keep him and your stuff safe when you can't watch him.

This dog's problem is only going to get worse if you don't get a handle on it now - please get both of you into good obedience classes.

Answer 5

Your dog is seriously BORED and he's doing this to entertain himself.Find a field he can run off-leash around a couple of times a day to wear him out.He needs to run about 45 minutes to an hour twice a day.A tired dog sleeps it does not destroy things.
When you see him chewing something he should'nt take it away and tell him Bad Boy.Then hand him something he CAN chew and play with him.He'll soon get the idea what's appropriate to chew and what's not.
training exercises and walks should not be tried until he has a chance to burn off some excess energy so get him in the yard and play ball with him first.And if you're worried he'll not come back when called attach a 50 ft.rope to his collar and let him go with one end of it in your hand so when you call him you can pull him back if need be.

Answer 6

First, does he have a crate that you can put him in when you can't keep an eye on him? If not start by getting him one and if you aren't keeping an eye on him place him in it. Even though you are putting him in the crate to control him the crate should still be a positive place so giving him a treat for going is helps or praising him for going in. When he is outside the crate keep a close eye on him and when you catch him doing something wrong grab him by the scruff and pin him to the ground. If he tries to resiste wait until he is calm before letting him back up. This is a submissive position that dogs use to demonstrate control. It also sounds like he has some build up energy. Try taking him for long walks and playing with him in a fenced in area. This expells his energy making him less likely to act out and more focused on training.

Answer 7

You have heard about crates, haven't you? Why did you buy an Electric collar that is not strong enough for him? Do you know how to use it? If he does all the commands you described, how does he become an idiot and not listen to you when there are distractions?
Have you FULLY proofed the dog against distractions? What methods did you use to train him, other then Ed's?
If you did the negotiating, here is a treat, positive only crap, then you know the reason he is like that.
Get him a crate and put him in it. Take him out ONLY on leash and start realistic training. He is too young to be doing all this and getting away with it. Hope I helped!!

ADD: A crate would keep him safe when you are NOY around to TRAIN him. NO dog disensitizes to an Electric collar, there are many levels of correction to fit many different temperament dogs.
It sounds as if you are not doing whatever needs to be done. I am not coming down on you, but, you have the tools, use them. Crate him and let him go nuts, it will only last a few days and he will appreciate the freedom that he gets with you when he is out training. As far as the recall, it is THE most important exercise the dog will ever perform and he needs to do it REGARDLESS of what is going on around him at the time, PERIOD, otherwise it is NOT a recall, it is a foot chase.
Recalls for the real world are NOT based on food and treats, they are based on corrections with the E collar. Learn how to use it properly and he will recall!!!

Answer 8

He doesn't sound uncontrollable to me.. He sounds like an 8 month old high energy dog that people might have trained, but they aren't being consistent with him.

If you did your research before buying him, you would have known that they are a high energy dog that is smart, and can use their paws like hands, and if there is a loophole in the system, they'll find it. You would know that he needs a job to do, something to physically and mentally wear him out.
2 - 20 minute walks a day isn't going to tire that dog out. You need to take him somewhere that he can run. You also need to teach him something each day and wear his head out. Find that thing that he likes to do naturally and work with that.

Make sure you aren't feeding him a high protein diet.
You need to watch him closer and before he gets the chance to pull something over, you are there telling him NO as he is thinking about what he is going to do next.

Be consistent, praise him when he is good, watch closer so you can catch him BEFORE he does something. Crate him when you go out or can't keep an eye on him. Keep up the training, and make sure you get him good and tired.. Play games with him that will force him to think. Nothing tires a Doberman out quicker than making him think about what YOU want him to think about.

I have 10 Dobermans, in the house, NOT crated, several have Yogoslavian bloodlines in them. I don't have dogs bouncing off the walls and tearing the place down. They all sleep thru the night and are well behaved thru the day. If I can have 10, you can surely get 1 tired enough and get him to listen well enough that he isn't ruling your life.

If you have to, get a prong collar or a shock collar to regain control on your walks.. Once you get the hang of it all you can remove the training aid and walk normally down the street.

You are leaving too much out and around for him to get into, if you aren't watching him constantly. Regain control, go back to training if you have to. He isn't a bad dog, he is a dog that needs more than what you are giving him.. Training, a job, and supervision.

He will calm down as he gets older, but you have to keep up on the training, you can't just try and wait him out til he decides to calm down. Get him Neutered that will help.. but do not stop the training and teaching him new things.

It sounds nuts at your house.. Is anyone saying NO to the dog?

Answer 9

If your dog will not come when you call him, then you have not got a recall on your dog, and it is not safe to let him off leash - end of story.
Sorry to hear that you're using these bullying, harsh techniques to force your dog to do what you want. Not a good idea.
http://www.diamondsintheruff.com/punishment.html

****Please, lose the shock collar. It turns my stomach to hear you say that it's "not strong enough". Horrible.
I disagree with your needing to go to a class only for him - it is you who needs to learn about dog training. Hope you're open to that. Please don't take your frustrations out on your dog.
Your dog is not "uncontrollable" - your dog is being "a dog" who needs to learn the joys of self-control.
And I don't mean that in a punishing/scolding/"Do What I Want Or I'll Hurt You!" kind of way.
Firstly, the dog must not be allowed access to your kitchen. He's shown you that he can and will get things on your counter - so, he cannot be trusted to be in there unsupervised. In fact, he can't have free run of the house.
And he cannot be off leash. You have no recall on this dog and he'll be killed if he's allowed to just run off.
If you are having problems keeping him in his collar (I can't tell from your description) then get a Gentle Leader:
http://gentleleaderheadcollar.com/?gclid=CJP98fuZ-I8CFQxbHgodnhUZGg

These come with a DVD that will show you how to use them. You will easily be able to stop the running off, and equally importantly, you will be able to reward your dog with food treats for staying with you. This is vital and needs to happen *all the time*. If this were my dog, he'd be in a relationship building program like Ruff Love:
http://www.dogwise.com/itemdetails.cfm?ID=DTA228
or NILIF:
http://www.k9deb.com/nilif.htm

Answer 10

Sounds like you have a doberman from working lines that you are treating as a pet dog. Dobes from working lines can be extremely destructive if you don't give them a job to do and do something with them to channel their energy...just like yours is. Two 20 minute walks per day may be enough for a lhasa apso or some of the lower energy dogs...but 40 minutes of walking per day is not even going to take the edge off of a doberman.

I would start with a NILIF (Nothing In Life Is Free) program. Keep the dog on leash at all times (even in the house...preferably tethered to you). If you can't be home to keep an eye on him, employ the use of a crate or a small dog-proofed room (giving him something to keep him occupied in this space, like a bone, should help). He might be bored by the crate, but I really don't see how that is a problem as he is OBVIOUSLY bored anyway without the crate (dogs who aren't bored don't destroy kitchens the way you describe). The crate is not there to deprive him of stimulation (which he isn't getting enough of anyway), it's there to keep him from killing himself and destroying your house in the process. Make him work for EVERYTHING. He has to sit before you open the door. He has to wait for your permission to go through the door (both going out and coming in). Make him down before you put the food on the floor. Better yet, hand feed him his kibble a little at a time and make him work for every bite. It doesn't have to be just sits or downs...you can use any command the dog knows. Don't give this dog access to the kitchen, he obviously can't be trusted. Keep everything off the counters so that he can't get to it.

Going to a group class is an excellent idea. My older dog (who probably obeys me the best) had to go through two basic obedience classes. The second time through she knew all of the commands, but we were taking it simply so that she could get used to coping with working around people she didn't know and other dogs. Group classes are a fantastic place to work on distractions. Your dog may have a fantastic recall without distractions...but life is full of distractions. If he won't listen to you with other people, dogs, or other distractions around he might as well have absolutely no recall at all. Plus, a professional trainer will give you handling advice that you either hadn't thought of or couldn't see for yourself because you're in the situation (my trainer is constantly reminding me to stand up straight and keep my shoulders back...because body language is so important to dogs and projecting a confident air rather than crouching and hovering over the dog can make a big difference in how the dog reacts to commands).

I won't tell you there are no bad dogs...but they are very few and far between. And I won't say that you're a bad owner. Obviously you are very concerned about this dog's behavior and you would prefer to work on training him to behave properly rather than take the easy way out and get rid of him. However, it may just be that this dog is not right for your household and lifestyle. Doing lots of research before getting a dog helps owners make good decisions about which dogs may be right for them, but it is no guarantee that you won't overlook something and still end up with an individual dog that isn't well suited for you. Give it a few months with the aid of a professional trainer. If you still are unable to get this dog's behavior under control even with professional help, then you may want to consider rehoming the dog.