Question from 300BC...?

Question

It seems to me that most believers in Abrahamic religions think that the questioning, doubt, or disbelief of their "truth" is a new trend. I submit to you that disbelief in gods is older than both christianity and islam, and possibly judaism as well. Men with rational minds have always questioned the nonsensical ramblings of superstitious simpletons. As a supporting argument, I submit this question, asked over 2,300 years ago. There has never been a satisfactory answer from any deist. Answer well.

"Either God wants to abolish evil, and cannot; or he can, but does not want to. If he wants to, but cannot, he is impotent. If he can, but does not want to, he is wicked. If God can abolish evil, and God really wants to do it, why is there evil in the world?" — Epicurus

Answer 1

Agreed.

Without a "god", there would be no "evil", you see. There would be only morality and immorality; "good" people and acts or "bad" people and acts.

There are those who need someone to blame for their own actions....and who are unable to make the grade of life on their own..so they need someone to "help" them along the way.

I really don't have a problem with that. If someone believes in all that god and bible things, OK by me.

Where my objection comes in is when those hapless, weak people try to force their beliefs on me and the rest of us.

That, I will not tolerate. Stay out of my space, stay out of my government, out of my bedroom, out of my womb, out of my lovelife.

Keep your beliefs to yourself and in your homes and churches where they belong.

Answer 2

Epicurus may not have understood some of the simple things that every good parent knows.

Suppose it were possible for me to abolish every potentially harmful thing my daughter could encounter. Suppose I could assure that she would never rebel, or even make a poor decision. If I did so, what kind of person would she become? Would she develop strength, virtue, and character? Most importantly, could she truly love if she were denied the choice?

Evil exists because you, I, and others just like us choose against God. He could have erradicated evil -- in which case you and I would have not have been spared either. Instead, He so loved us that He not only chose to put up with us, but suffer the consequences of evil Himself.

So Epicurus overlooked the rationality of this: "God does want to abolish evil, can, and eventually will. But out of his great love for us, has not only chosen to forebear, but has willingly subjected Himself to evil's outcome." Is such an undeniable demonstration of love rational?

For the time being, the door of Jesus' invitation stands open. Considering the alternatives, is it rational to stand outside?

Answer 3

Zounds! This means that rationally god cannot exist. He is not logical therefore he does not exist.
I was just watching my new HD dvds of Star Trek. The episode I was watching was "Return of the Archons". For those not familiar with the story it is about a machine that thinks it is god. Spock and Kirk defeat it by proving how illogical it is. They did the same thing with Nomad come to think of it. There is always some alien race or machine in Star Trek pretending to be god. Never any god just aliens and machines.

Answer 4

Epicurus was clever to be sure. :)

Why is it that so often the same people who use the "God is not a puppeteer" argument are the same people who tell you that God wrote the bible through man? Sounds like a puppeteer to me. :) (There is also the idea that God sent his only begotten son to die on the cross. Puppeteer?)

Oh, sorry, I am supposed to be answering a question, not asking one.

My answer is:
Sorry, but I cannot satisfactorily answer Epicurus' question.

Answer 5

You create a straw horse, "It seems to me that most believers in Abrahamic religions think that the questioning, doubt, or disbelief of their "truth" is a new trend," and then argue against it.

Which believers are you exposed to, that you think this is the case? People on-line? That’s like watching Jerry Springer and assuming all the USA is like that.

I’m curious how a philosopher from a polytheist society is able to fashion a question about a monotheist God.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicurus


Here’s a quote from Epicurus that seems more accurate:

"It is pointless for a man to pray to the gods for that which he has the power to obtain by himself."

http://www.epicurus.net/en/vatican.html

Here’s another:

"For the nature of gods must ever in itself of necessity enjoy immortality together with supreme repose, far removed and withdrawn from our concerns; since, exempt from every pain, exempt from all dangers, strong in its own resources, not wanting aught of us, it is neither gained by favours nor moved by anger."

http://www.epicurus.net/en/anger.html

So, the REAL question is, are you so ignorant of Greek history you don’t know that it was a polytheist society and you’re just ignorantly repeating obviously erroneous quotes, or are you simply making up quotes to support what you believe?

Answer 6

a child, in his thoughts, questions all correction or deprivation as some evil or wicked, until they are wise enough to tell the difference

Answer 7

The answer is that God is not a puppeteer. He has given us free will to do whatever we want on this earth. If we chose to do evil we can and will answer for that choice. On the other hand, if we chose to do good we chose to walk closer to God and He will set His Grace upon us and we will have better lives. God can do whatever He wants. What do YOU want to do?

Answer 8

good and evil are one in the same.