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2007-11-24 05:26:20 · 9 answers · asked by Anonymous in Society & Culture Religion & Spirituality

Hogie, you are going to be without excuse for your views.

2007-11-27 01:11:57 · update #1

9 answers

Nowhere, if He did His executioners would not have needed two false witnesses against Him. He would be a false prophet by teaching and leading people against the Torah commandments of YHVH His Father. - Deuteronomy 13:5

YHVH will allow false prophets to exist in this world to test us. To see if we will keep His commandments, love Him. - Deuteronomy 13:3

Deu 13:1 "If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder,
Deu 13:2 and the sign or the wonder comes true, concerning which he spoke to you, saying, 'Let us go after other gods (whom you have not known) and let us serve them,'
Deu 13:3 you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams; for the LORD your God is testing you to find out if you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
Deu 13:4 "You shall follow the LORD your God and fear Him; and you shall keep His commandments, listen to His voice, serve Him, and cling to Him.
Deu 13:5 "But that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death, because he has counseled rebellion against the LORD your God who brought you from the land of Egypt and redeemed you from the house of slavery, to seduce you from the way in which the LORD your God commanded you to walk. So you shall purge the evil from among you.

Today the church will follow the misunderstood writings of Paul to justify the destruction of the Torah commandments.

Peter warns us against this:

2 Pet 3:15 and regard the patience of our Lord to be salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you,
2 Pet 3:16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.
2 Pet 3:17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard lest, being carried away by the error of unprincipled men, you fall from your own steadfastness,
2 Pet 3:18 but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

Paul was actually preaching grace through faith, which is obedience to the commandments of YHVH.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

Rom 10:8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"-- that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,

Romans 10:8 is a direct quote from Deuteronomy 30:14 instructing His people to keep the Torah commandments - "the word of faith which we are preaching" - Paul and the disciples.

Deu 30:10 if you obey the LORD your God to keep His commandments and His statutes which are written in this book of the law (Torah), if you turn to the LORD your God with all your heart and soul.
Deu 30:11 "For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach. ...

Deu 30:14 "But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may observe it.

John 8:28 Jesus therefore said, "When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and I do nothing on My own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught Me.

Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
Mat 7:23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.' (Torah-lessness)

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.

Note: The NASB capitalizes "Old Testament" cross-references.


EDIT: Re to response below, all I ask is that you consider this.

Without the Hebrew Covenant the New Covnenant is another religion with a different god.

Quoting from Hosea who does Paul say the gentiles are?

Rom 9:24 even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles.
Rom 9:25 As He says also in Hosea, "I WILL CALL THOSE WHO WERE NOT MY PEOPLE, 'MY PEOPLE,' AND HER WHO WAS NOT BELOVED, 'BELOVED.'"
Rom 9:26 "AND IT SHALL BE THAT IN THE PLACE WHERE IT WAS SAID TO THEM, 'YOU ARE NOT MY PEOPLE,' THERE THEY SHALL BE CALLED SONS OF THE LIVING GOD."
Rom 9:27 And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel, "THOUGH THE NUMBER OF THE SONS OF ISRAEL BE AS THE SAND OF THE SEA, IT IS THE REMNANT THAT WILL BE SAVED;

In Hosea YHVH told the house of ISRAEL you are "not a people" they have become as the "gentiles".

Hosea 1:9 And the LORD said, "Name him Lo-ammi, for you are not My people and I am not your God."
Hosea 1:10 Yet the number of the sons of Israel Will be like the sand of the sea, Which cannot be measured or numbered; And it will come about that, in the place Where it is said to them, "You are not My people," It will be said to them, "You are the sons of the living God."

YHVH made His covenant with Israel and because of His grace He will not break His promise that is why:

Jer 31:31 "Behold, days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, (Where are the gentiles?)

The New (renewed) Covenant is with THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND THE HOUSE OF JUDAH. And to the stranger who takes hold of the covenant. - ie. Isaiah 56

This time the covenant comes with a better promise that WILL NEVER BE BROKEN.

Jer 32:40 "And I will make an everlasting covenant with them (ISRAEL) that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; and I will put the fear of Me in their hearts so that they will not turn away from Me.
Jer 32:41 "And I will rejoice over them to do them (ISRAEL) good, and I will faithfully plant them in this land with all My heart and with all My soul.
Jer 32:42 "For thus says the LORD, 'Just as I brought all this great disaster on this people, so I am going to bring on them (ISRAEL) all the good that I am promising them.

and ...

Isa 54:6 "For the LORD has called you, Like a wife (ISRAEL) forsaken and grieved in spirit, Even like a wife of one's youth when she is rejected," Says your God.
Isa 54:7 "For a brief moment I forsook you (ISRAEL), But with great compassion I will gather you (ISRAEL).
Isa 54:8 "In an outburst of anger I hid My face from you (ISRAEL) for a moment; But with everlasting lovingkindness I will have compassion on you (ISRAEL)," Says the LORD your Redeemer.
Isa 54:9 "For this is like the days of Noah to Me; When I swore that the waters of Noah Should not flood the earth again, So I have sworn that I will not be angry with you (ISRAEL), Nor will I rebuke you (ISRAEL).
Isa 54:10 "For the mountains may be removed and the hills may shake, But My lovingkindness will not be removed from you (ISRAEL), And My covenant of peace will not be shaken," Says the LORD who has compassion on you (ISRAEL).

Why would the Messiah refer to Jeremiah the Prophet if the "Old" covenant ways no longer applied?

Mat 11:29 "Take My yoke upon you, and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart; and YOU SHALL FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS.
Mat 11:30 "For My yoke is easy, and My load is light."

Jer 6:16 Thus says the LORD, "Stand by the ways and see and ask for the ancient paths, Where the good way is, and walk in it; And you shall find rest for your souls. But they (the church today) said, 'We will not walk in it.'

The Millennial Kingdom:

Circumcision:
Ezek 44:9 'Thus says the Lord GOD, "No foreigner, uncircumcised in heart and uncircumcised in flesh, of all the foreigners who are among the sons of Israel, shall enter My sanctuary.

Sacrifices: YHVH stripped His Kingdom away from this earth because of His wrath, His people scattered throughout the earth, the temple destroyed. The Messiah is the Passover sacrifice fulfilled. The Levitical priesthood, New Moon, Sabbath, and Tabernacle sacrifices will be restored in His Kingdom read Jeremiah and Ezekiel.

Jer 33:17 "For thus says the LORD, 'David shall never lack a man to sit on the throne of the house of Israel;
Jer 33:18 and the Levitical priests shall never lack a man before Me to offer burnt offerings, to burn grain offerings, and to prepare sacrifices continually.'"

Are the commandments purely spiritual, a physical action or both?
How can we help the poor, the fatherless, and the widows spiritually?

Today this life is a test for us with what He has left us, do we really love Him?

2007-11-25 16:00:28 · answer #1 · answered by dlc 6 · 0 0

No where. He says just the opposite.

Matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

However, since He fulfilled the sacrificial and ceremonial laws which were types and shadows of the Messiah to come they no longer have a need to be observed.

Colossians 2:13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, 14 by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. 15 He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him. 16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. 17 These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.

Hebrews 10:11 And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet. 14 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified. 15 And the Holy Spirit also bears witness to us; for after saying, 16 "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws on their hearts, and write them on their minds," 17 then he adds, "I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more." 18 Where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer any offering for sin.

2007-11-24 13:32:02 · answer #2 · answered by Martin S 7 · 2 1

It doesn't in fact what He said was;
I have not come to do away with the Law, but to fulfill it.
Since, in my opinion, the purpose of the Law was to offer reconciliation between man and God, He was saying that through my sacrifice on the cross reconciliation is now offered once and for all to those that accept that sacrifice.
That would mean the Law is still there, but it's purpose has been fulfilled.

2007-11-24 13:31:24 · answer #3 · answered by drg5609 6 · 2 0

Where in the Bible does it say God or Christ extended the old covenant out to Gentile Christians?

And by your logic here, we should be performing sacrifices and circumcising our male offspring, contrary to the new covenant teachings.

Your statement is nothing more than another straw-man.

.

2007-11-26 14:05:46 · answer #4 · answered by Hogie 7 · 0 0

Where in the Bible does it say that all Christian teaching MUST be found in the Bible?
IT DOESNT

Jesus didn't establish a Bible, He established a Church. Jesus promised, "I will build my Church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it" (Matt. 16:18). Among the Christian churches, only the Catholic Church has existed since the time of Jesus. Every other Christian church is an offshoot of the Catholic Church. The Eastern Orthodox churches broke away from unity with the pope in 1054. The heretical protestant churches were established during the Reformation, which began in 1517. Only the Catholic Church existed in the tenth century, in the fifth century, and in the first century, faithfully teaching the doctrines given by Christ to the apostles, omitting nothing. The list of popes can be traced back to Peter himself, the first pope.

Jesus’ Church is called catholic ("universal" in Greek) because it is his gift to all people. He told his apostles to go throughout the world and make disciples of "all nations" (Matt. 28:19–20). For 2,000 years the Catholic Church has carried out this mission, preaching the good news that Christ died for all men and that he wants all of us to be members of his universal family (Gal. 3:28).

2007-11-24 13:36:00 · answer #5 · answered by Anonymous · 2 2

My brain is not in gear at the moment & I know there are better scriptures but the only on comeing to mind at the moment is Romans 8:2

2007-11-24 21:20:35 · answer #6 · answered by Anonymous · 0 0

He came to preserve them (meaning the Ten Commandments.) As far as the laws concerning sacrifice, punishment (i.e. getting stoned to death), and dietary restrictions are concerned, those were abolished.

2007-11-24 13:48:19 · answer #7 · answered by chrstnwrtr 7 · 0 1

Matt. 5:17

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Jesus did not tell His followers that He came to abolish the law.

2007-11-24 13:33:17 · answer #8 · answered by guitarrman45 7 · 4 1

He didn't, He came and made it full, He made it binding on us now by the way we think, not just what we physically do.

2007-11-25 17:13:16 · answer #9 · answered by His eyes are like flames 6 · 0 0

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