Jehovah's witnesses, would you say that the same "great crowd" in REV 7:9-10 is the same as REV 19:1, if so...

Question

if so, we have a problem/contridiction
REVELATIONS 19:!
After these things I heard what was as a loud voice of a great crowd in heaven. They said: “Praise Jah, YOU people! The salvation and the glory and the power belong to our God,


where are they?

THA LISTEN DUDE....

Revelation 19:1) “19 After these things I heard what was as a loud voice of a great crowd(a voice of a crowd is far different than a great crowd out of all nations etc.--MY COMMENT) in heaven. They said: “Praise Jah, YOU people! The salvation and the glory and the power belong to our God,”



OK, in the beginning of REV 19:1 it says great crowd, but you conviently converted them to simply a "crowd" and how a "great crowd" would make so much more noise that were made of the people of the nations. notice it still says great crowd even though you shortened it to just a crowd.

Answer 1

Good question. They claim on the 144,000 are gonna go to heaven, and I am positive that there are more than 144,000 JW, so how do they know who's going and who isnt? And why wouldn't they all wanna go?

Answer 2

ANGELS ARE INHABITANTS OF HEAVEN Rev.5:11;

Bible is Jehovah's witness, Jesus is his greatest witness, I read and study it
daily, now for 44 years.

Job 38: 4-7,30-32; Here is a great crowd, angels are inhabitants of heaven.

Job 1:6-12; 2:1,2; Here is a heavenly crowd.

Matt.26:53; Here is a great crowd, 12 legions or 72,000 angels that could have helped Jesus not to be crucified, if he wanted them to do so.

Rev.19:1-21; With heavens inhabitants as before and now people must be same as Rev.20:1-6; The heavenly that are with Jesus at his second coming.
1Cor.15:22-28,51-53; that would have to be the firstfruit that is the first resurrected in order: then every thing else in in order.

John 3:13-17; No one goes to heaven except at the last day John 6:39,40,44;
14:3 [ when the place is prepared ]; when Satan is down Rev.12:7-12; to have a short time, then there is the raised up, Rev.6:9-11; the waiting. Mark 13:27; the gathered, 1Thes.4:15-17; the caught up.

Eph.2:7; 3:21; the world with Jesus is without end. John 3:16; 17:3,17; 2Pet.3:13; Rev.20:1-5; All is made as new as before Eden, it has got to be done, because the life sustaining earth was sacrificed to save Noah and his family. Before that life span was near 1000 years even after sin.

Answer 3

Well you heard wrong, the two great crowds aren't the same.

Update:

The term Great Crowd was used many times in the Bible, and it didn't always refer to the same Great Crowd.

John 6:2
and a great multitude of people followed him because they saw the miraculous signs he had performed on the sick.

John 5:3
In these lay a great multitude of impotent folk, of blind, halt, withered, waiting for the moving of the water.

So its clear that the term "great multitude" is a certain group of people, and not of the same kind.

If you think that everyone will be in Heaven, then thats basically going against what Jesus said, and also going against what's talked about after Satan's Abyss.

John 3:3
In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.

Jesus clearly states that you must be Born Again to be in the Heavenly Kingdom. So if thats the case, then that would mean faithful prophets of Old will never be in Heaven because they did not have the chance to be Born Again. They will still be saved since they will inherit the Earth.

Psalm 37:9
For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth.

Matthew 5:5
Blessed [are] the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

The Bible is clear to who goes to Heaven and who does not.

Answer 4

Revelation 19: 1 states, " After these things I heard what was AS a loud voice of A great crowd in heaven..." This verse is LIKENING the voice coming from heaven to that of a great crowd. It's a similie. This is not actually the great crowd as mentioned in Revelation 7:9 which states, " After these things I saw, and look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb..." This "great crowd" is the same as the "other sheep" as mentioned in John 10:16, "And I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; those also I must bring, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd." And in Luke 12: 32 it states, "have no fear, little flock, because YOUR Father has approved of giving YOU the kingdom." These two scriptures show two different groups of people.. one which would have a heavenly place with Jehovah and Jesus in heaven.. as Luke 12:32 says they are given the kingdom. These are the "little flock" or the 144,000. The scripture in Reve 19:1 & John 10:16, show a larger group of people, aka "great crowd" or "other sheep", which will live here on earth in paradise. Hope this helps ! : o )

Answer 5

Rev 19:1 didn’t say “he has avenged the [blood of US his slaves] or [OUR BLOOD, his slaves] at her hand” (the harlot). The text didn’t also say “I heard what was as a loud voice of a great crowd [out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tounges] in heaven.

It doesn’t mean that when the Bible uses “great crowd” that all usage of that phrase is referring to the same group of people.

There is a “what was as a loud voice of a great crowd in heaven” Rev 19:1 which is composed of spiritual sons of God, like angels, etc and they are in heaven.

“Great crowd(s)” is sometimes used with regard to the large groups of persons who heard Jesus Christ’s public teaching. (Mt 14:14; 19:2; 20:29)

There is also a “great crowd” that come out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tounges (Rev 7:9) who will be on earth and God will be with mankind. Rev 21:1-4 , Psalms 37:29, Mat 5.

Answer 6

I appreciate you pointing out a commandment from the 144,000 to praise Jehovah. 'Jah' is short for Jehovah.

They are talking to the earth in that verse. The earthly great crowd.

Answer 7

This question has been asked before. One is in heaven, and the other is on the earth. The ones on the earth have come out of the great tribulation.

Answer 8

No they are not!

--THIS GREAT CROWD is a specific one , that come from every tribes, tongues, peoples nations(OF WHICH there are no such ones in heaven) of the earth!
----AND THEIR is no change to lose their designation in the above categories!
--(Revelation 7:9) “. . .After these things I saw, and, look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands. . .”
***THIS GREAT CROWD has nothing to do with a heavenly origin OR destination, again to make clear tribes, nations, tongues, peoples all exist on the earth, and will continue to do so!

--Does not the scripture say those of the heavenly class do not have any distinctions?

(Galatians 3:26-29) “26 YOU are all, in fact, sons of God through YOUR faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For all of YOU who were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor freeman, there is neither male nor female; for YOU are all one [person] in union with Christ Jesus. 29 Moreover, if YOU belong to Christ, YOU are really Abraham’s seed, heirs with reference to a promise.”

REV. 19 ENGLISH STANDARD VERSION

Rejoicing in Heaven
1After this I heard(A) what SEEMED(my caps) to be the loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, crying out,"

--CROSS REF
Rev. 11: ENGLISH STANDARD VERSION
The Seventh Trumpet
15Then(A) the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and(B) there were LOUD VOICES in heaven, saying,(C) "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of(D) his Christ, and(E) he shall reign forever and ever."

These are angels, and possibly members of 144,000 already resurrrected

(Revelation 19:1) “19 After these things I heard what WAS AS (my caps) a loud voice of a great crowd(a voice of a crowd is far different than a great crowd out of all nations etc.--MY COMMENT) in heaven. They said: “Praise Jah, YOU people! The salvation and the glory and the power belong to our God,”

--SUCH ANGELS cried out when Jehovah God created things :
(Job 38:7) “. . .When the morning stars joyfully cried out together, And all the sons of God began shouting in applause?”

===UPDATE====

--IS THAT BETTER? Whether you wish to believe it or not , I did not do that on purpose, no big deal unless you are going to make it that, in your own mind!
--DOES THAT really change anything,--- what can we say , we give you reasons and you play around with words?

--Which are more important the individual words of Christ separated or Christs ideas,reasoning-- be careful you do not become diseased over words as this warning gives:

(1 Timothy 6:2-5) “. . .Keep on teaching these things and giving these exhortations. 3 If any man teaches other doctrine and does not assent to HEALTHFUL (my caps) words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, nor to the teaching that accords with godly devotion, 4 he is puffed up [with pride], not understanding anything, but being mentally diseased over questionings and DEBATES (my caps) about words. From these things spring envy, strife, abusive speeches, wicked suspicions, 5 violent disputes about trifles on the part of men corrupted in mind and despoiled of the truth, thinking that godly devotion is a means of gain.”

Answer 9

No.

Jehovah's Witnesses recognize that the bible uses the term "great crowd" differently in its twenty-four occurrences, but believe that the term is unique when it is used at Revelation 7:9 in that it particularly describes the group of humans who survive the "great tribulation" to live forever on earth.

(Revelation 7:9-11,13,14) Look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes...11 And all the angels were standing around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures... 13 These who are dressed in the white robes, who are they and where did they come from?...These are the ones that come out of the great tribulation [compare Matt 24:3,21]


Readers will note that all the angels, elders, and four living creatures are AROUND the throne; by contrast, this "great crowd" is BEFORE the throne. Of course, the Greek word here translated “before” (e·no′pi·on) literally means “in the sight of”. Here is the Strong's reference for the word translated "before":
[quote]
G1799 ἐνώπιον enōpion en-o'-pee-on
Neuter of a compound of G1722 and a derivation of G3700; in the face of (literally or figuratively): - before, in the presence (sight) of, to.

The bible uses this same term repeatedly regarding humans who remain here on earth even while they are “before” or “in the sight of” Jehovah God.

(1 Timothy 5:21) I solemnly charge you before ["ἐνώπιον" or "enōpion"] God and Christ Jesus

(2 Timothy 2:14) Keep reminding them of these things, charging them before ["ἐνώπιον" or "enōpion"] God as witness

(Romans 14:22) The faith that you have, have it in accord with yourself in the sight of ["ἐνώπιον" or "enōpion"] God.

(Galatians 1:20) Look! in the sight of ["ἐνώπιον" or "enōpion"] God, I am not lying.

Learn more:
http://watchtower.org/e/20051201/article_02.htm
http://watchtower.org/e/20060915/article_01.htm
http://watchtower.org/e/dg/index.htm?article=article_10.htm
http://watchtower.org/e/lmn/index.htm?article=article_10.htm

Answer 10

all of them are under God ´s kingdom , remember that Jesus said in Matthew 6:9.

Matthew 6:9 "Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified. 10 Let your kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth"

Also Jesus said that the meek will inherit earth. Matthew 5:5

"“Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth. "

are you suggesting that Jesus lie when said that?

Answer 11

well they are in heaven & same crowd. Good sizable group of people.
although I am not JW.