Maybe someone can explain this whole Messiah and Isaiah 53 connection?

Question

Maybe I am missing something, but for the life of me I do not understand why Christians think that Isaiah 53 is messianic.

First off I simply do not see the author saying that this chapter is talking about the messiah. The author has no hesitation in chapter 11 to say that this is what the messiah will do so why not in 53?

Second, the entire chapter is set in the past tense. He did suffer, he was broken, ect. Again comparing it to chapter 11 as well 42 (which are talking about the future) this is strange. How can you have a prophecy when you are talking about history?

Those are just two problems I have with this understanding, can anyone clarify?

royal racer
-That was not my question. I am not asking you to convince me. I sated why I do not think the chapter is Messianic and I wanted you to say why you think it is. I am looking for your understanding not to prove who is right.

oldguy63
-Where did Jesus say Isaiah 53 was messianic?
If he did I will accept that as a legitimate reason.

simon p
trying to belittle me dose not make your case

Answer 1

To those of you who are trying to scare people away from reading the entire narrative themselves by claiming that they need some kind of special preparation or ability or special calling or gift from God. Nonsense. Why try to preach and teach and convert people if your reading comprehension depends on having an exclusive "Gift" from God to do it? Using your "logic" Those who have the "gift" or Spirit of God, don't need the preaching because they can get already get it, those who don't have it don't need the preaching because they can't ever "get it" You just try to say that they don't have the "gift" if they don't see your imposed meaning that isn't in the text, in order to elevate your ego and try to deflate another's and evade the reality.

It makes no difference if you're atheist, Christian, Jew, Buddhist, Muslim, Hindu..if you know the English language and have at least a high school level of reading comprehension and wish to understand the narrative as written, you can. I was able to understand it contextually ( of course without using outside texts to impose meaning ) when I was a teen! All you need is a desire to read the words as Isaiah wrote them in context and that will get you through it.

Recall now, Isaiah did not have chapter designations when it was first written and the narrative we call the "Servant song" begins several chapters before 53 and continues BEYOND it.
Israel is distinctly called the servant no less than 14 times in the narrative BEFORE you get to Chapter 53 and he doesn't say he's talking about any other servant as the narrative continues.
Here is the "fun" way to explore and discover, with Sherlock Holmes. I love this clever presentation!
Enjoy!
( It is a three pages long, so relax and have a nosh (snack) while you're reading!)
http://hometown.aol.com/abdulreis/myhomepageindex14.html go to the links below for page 2 and 3 or click on next at the bottom

EDIT: I just realized that I didn't really address this question as asked..and I probably shouldn't even be answering! I was trying to show the contextual meaning of what Isaiah wrote and not answer how or why Christian dogma turned it into a messianic prophecy fitting Jesus!
I'll let Christians explain to you their perspective of their belief on Isaiah themselves!
I don't like to do to Christians what is always done on EVERY question posed about Jewish belief..Whereby Christians proceed to tell Jews what Jews believe and why ( and almost without fail, in error) SHALOM!!
EDIT NUMBER 2. what I should have done to begin with as I knew folk wouldn't go read it..this is an EXCERPT copy pasted from the 3 pages. It's long but it has the most important points and not the FUN stuff.
"41:8 "But you, Israel, My servant," (Okay, that's one Watson. Let's keep
track of how many times Israel is called "servant").
41:9 "…To whom I said: You are My servant; (Two).
42:1 "This is My servant, whom I uphold,
My chosen one, in whom I delight.
I have put My spirit upon him,
He shall teach the true way to the nations.
He shall not cry out or shout aloud," (Three)
42:6 "I the LORD, in My grace have summoned you,
And I have grasped you by the hand.
I created you, and appointed you
A COVENANT PEOPLE, A LIGHT OF NATIONS-
Opening eyes deprived of light,"(It's clear that the servant described
in 42:1 is Israel).
42:19 "Who is so blind as My servant, (Four)
So deaf as the messenger I send?
Who is so blind as the chosen one,
So blind as the servant of the LORD" (Five)
42:21 "The LORD desires His (servant's) vindication,
That he may magnify and glorify (His) Teaching."
(This Isaiah chap seems to be saying Watson that a FORMERLY
sinful Israel will BECOME righteous and serve as a good example
for the nations).
43:10 "…My servant, whom I have chosen." (Six)
44:1 "But hear, now, O Jacob My servant,
Israel whom I have chosen!" (Seven)
44:2 "…Fear not, My servant Jacob,
Jeshurun whom I have chosen," (Eight)
44:21 "Remember these things, O Jacob
For you, O Israel, are My servant:" (Nine)
44:21 "…I fashioned you, you are My servant-
O Israel, never forget Me." (Ten)
44:26 "But confirm the word of My servant
And fulfill the prediction of My messengers." (Eleven)
45:4 "For the sake of My servant Jacob,
Israel My chosen one," (Twelve)
48:16 "…And now the Lord God has sent me, endowed with His spirit"
(It would seem Watson that Isaiah is the messenger or servant to
Israel).
48:21 "Say: "The LORD has redeemed His servant Jacob!" (Thirteen).
49: …The LORD appointed me before I was born,
… And He said to me, "You are My servant, Israel in whom I glory"
… AND NOW THE LORD HAS RESOLVED-
HE WHO FORMED ME IN THE WOMB TO BE HIS
SERVANT-
TO BRING BACK JACOB TO HIMSELF,
THAT ISRAEL MAY BE RESTORED TO HIM.
AND I HAVE BEEN HONORED IN THE SIGHT OF THE
LORD,
MY GOD HAS BEEN MY STRENGTH.
FOR HE HAS SAID:
"IT IS TOO LITTLE THAT YOU SHOULD BE MY SERVANT
IN THAT I RAISE UP THE TRIBES OF JACOB
AND RESTORE THE SURVIVORS OF ISRAEL:
I WILL ALSO MAKE YOU A LIGHT OF NATIONS,
THAT MY SALVATION MAY REACH THE ENDS OF THE
EARTH."
(Ahaah. So Isaiah is the servant to Israel and Israel is the servant to
the nations).
50:4 "The Lord GOD gave me a skilled tongue,
To know how to speak timely words to the weary." (Isaiah)
50:10 "Who among you reveres the LORD
And heeds the voice of His servant?- (Isaiah)
52:13 "Indeed, My servant shall prosper," (Fourteen)"

Answer 2

I wish you luck in your quest to try and get Christians to answer rationally on this or any topic connected with religion. They will never do this, at least many of them won't. All they can do is twist and distort the texts into a pretzel in a desperate effort to convince both us and themselves that Jesus was predicted as messiah.

Of course, he wasn't. Jesus is never mentioned by name in the Tanakh and the so called predictions only make sense when Christians mistranslate the original Hebrew.

Best wishes

Answer 3

Matthew believed this passage to be Messianic (Matthew 8:17)
Phillip believed this passage to be Messianic (Acts Chapter 8)
Paul believed this passage to be Messianic
(Romans 10:16)
Peter believed the passage to be Messianic
(I Peter 2:24)
You could infer from Jesus' statement in Luke chapter 24 that He believed this passage to be Messianic (as referenced above)
The Church has always believed and taught the passage to be Messianic.

What's the problem here?

Answer 4

This messianic prophecy begins in 52:13. Isaiah speaks in the past tense, as if the events had already occurred, because the image of the suffering Messiah is so vivid in his mind.
If the prophet is not describing the suffering of Christ, who is he talking about?

Answer 5

It really takes years of study to understand Bible prophecy. People would love for the Bible to simply say, "this is what will happen and then this... and this... etc. " It doesn't work that way. Prophecy is buried in other passages and is meant to be that way to hide it from the casual reader. The same reason Jesus spoke often in parables in His prophecies. But to be simple concerning Isaiah 53 the main reason it is believed to be prophetic is because Jesus taught that it was.

Matthew 8:17 This was to fulfill what was spoken through Isaiah the prophet: "HE HIMSELF TOOK OUR INFIRMITIES AND CARRIED AWAY OUR DISEASES." That is a quote from Isaiah 53.

Answer 6

I will have to brush up on my Isaiah, but I seem to remember 53:5 saying "by his stripes we are healed" (Stryper fan) This foretells Jesus brutal beating that leads to our salvation.

Let us presume the tense is correct. Isaiah saw it as a done deal and accepted the gift of his savior as fact. What a wonderful testament of faith. Before you discard this remember the Roman soldier who said to Jesus speak the words and it will be done and Jesus told him his daughter was (past tense) healed.

I am heading to bed if you have more questions email me and I will see if I can help. God does not fear questions and can work through all doubt.

Answer 7

Did you read St. Peter's explanation?

Isaiah 53:5
But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

1 Peter 2:24
Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Prophesy is history written in advance.

Pastor Art

Answer 8

Actually there are dozens of passages in the Old Testament that are written in this cryptic fashion. You might consider this one thing - Satan reads the Bible too, and if he had known what God was doing, he never would have allowed Jesus to be crucified for the sins of the world. This is stated plainly in I Corinthians 2:8.....
"None of the rulers of this age understood it (God's wisdom in the Gospel), for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory."
Furthermore, much prophecy is written as something in the past tense, and in fact the very tense in the Hebrew has a certain ambiguity about it that allows it to be interpreted as either a past or future tense event; because as far as God is concerned, "He calls those things which be not as though they were" (Romans 4:17)

But the plainest fact is that the New Testament authors and Jesus Himself plainly state that this is what the Prophet Isaiah was writing about:

"He (Jesus) said to them, "How foolish you are, and how slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken! Did not the Christ(Messiah) have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?" And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself. "
Luke 4:25-27

"He said to them, "This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms."

"Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. He told them, "This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem..."
Luke 24:44-47

"Then Philip ran up to the chariot and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet. "Do you understand what you are reading?" Philip asked.

"How can I," he said, "unless someone explains it to me?" So he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.

The eunuch was reading this passage of Scripture:
"He was led like a sheep to the slaughter,
and as a lamb before the shearer is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.
In his humiliation he was deprived of justice.
Who can speak of his descendants?
For his life was taken from the earth."

The eunuch asked Philip, "Tell me, please, who is the prophet talking about, himself or someone else?" Then Philip began with that very passage of Scripture and told him the good news about Jesus. "

Acts 8:30-35

If you cannot see these things, it is plain that you do not have the Spirit of Christ.

Answer 9

The Hebrew language often used the past tenses to magnify the assurance of a passage. Also it is very clearly speaking of the Messiah to about a million other people, including myself. Maybe you should pray about this.

Answer 10

The only way I can understand the Christian messianic prophesy is to compare it to "the emperor's new clothes!"

Christians can't understand that Jews actually study Torah in the original Hebrew.
.