Raw vs. kibble, why or why not?

Question

I have researched both the top brands of dog food and raw diets as I have a dane that is impossible to keep weight on. My vet recommends Purina Pro Plan, but I heard that it's worthless. I think if I stick with kibble I will go Canidae, but I don't know if I want to do that or go raw.

Tell me which one is better and why. I think raw would be really healthy and I know my dogs would love it, but then I worry about diseases. And since Canidae is a good kibble at least then I wouldn't have to worry about viruses, but then I worry is that the best for my dog.

There is so much information out there for and against raw that I am confused and unsure, so hey about you all see if you can help me out. Please give sound reasoning.

Also if you believe in raw, then can you give me a list of what kinds of food and how much food a Great dane or Sheltie should eat a day.

Answer 1

If you want to allay your fears about bacteria and such, check out this site:

www.rawfed.com/myths

A raw diet consists purely of 80% meat, 10% bone, and 10% organs. The idea is to feed a species appropriate diet, one that wolves eat in the wild. I personally don't feed vegetables because dogs are carnivores, but if you do just make sure it doesn't make up more than 10% of the diet.

The rule of thumb is to feed 2-3% of your dog's body weight, depending on his/her activity level. You get your meat from the butcher, the grocery store, etc. Asian markets tend to have a lot of good items. Raw is as expensive as you make it. We generally try to stay under $2/lb, and for some people it ends up being cheaper than kibble.

Half of the organ allotment (5%) should be liver, and the other half should be another organ (pancreas, thymus, spleen, kidney). Heart and lung don't count as organ because they don't secrete.

As for bones, all RAW poultry bones and rabbit bones are edible. Cooked bones are always a no-no, no matter what diet you're feeding. Raw bones are soft and pliable and are perfectly fine. Pork bones are edible as well, depending on the size of your dog. Beef bones (and lamb/venison/etc bones) are not recommended because they're very dense and can wreck your dog's teeth. However, if they're nicely covered with meat, then it's fine for your dog to eat them (but take the bone away after the meat is gone). Weight-bearing bones (hooves, legs, etc) are especially dense and I don't recommend them, especially if your dogs are chew-crazy.

Most beginning raw feeders stick with chicken for the first couple weeks so that their systems adjust to raw. After that, progress slowly to organs and other proteins. Liver and other organs are VERY rich and can cause runny poop if they are given too soon. Pork and lamb also tend to be rich. The key to raw feeding in the beginning is to take it easy and slow. If you don't want to switch your dog cold turkey, then feed kibble in the morning and raw at night (or vice versa) and slowly decrease the amount of kibble while increasing the amount of raw.

I get almost all my meat from Asian markets for under $1.50/lb. Do-it-yourself raw is always cheaper than pre-made raw. Some premade raw brands include Nature's Variety, Stella & Chewy, Primal, and Bravo. You can also get meat for free if you have friends who hunt. Make sure to freeze meat for at least 2 weeks to kill off parasites if the meat you're feeding is fresh-killed meat (if it's from hutners). I also recommend buying in bulk. Do you have any local raw-feeder co-ops in your area? There are many online raw suppliers as well, but shipping can get expensive, depending on where you live. Here's a list of some online raw suppliers. The more you buy, the less you pay for shipping (generally). It also helps to have a large chest freezer to store meat. Meat lasts indefinitely in the freezer (dogs don't care about freezer burn), so it's good to stock up during hunting/holiday season when meat is cheap.

West Coast:
www.greentripe.com
www.crestonvalleymeats.com
www.wholefoods4pets.com
www.socalbarf.com

East Coast:
www.hare-today.com
www.prey4pets.com
www.aplaceforpaws.com
www.mypetcarnivore.com

As for actual feeding time, you can either feed on a towel (train your dog to keep the meat on the towel), toss the meat outside, or feed inside the crate. Make sure to take proper precautions when handling raw meat. Dogs can handle raw just fine (their systems were meant to handle bacteria), but humans should still wash their hands and wipe down things appropriately.

My dog eats the following proteins regularly: beef, chicken, turkey, duck, eggs, salmon, sardines, venison, lamb, and rabbit.

I also wanted to add- most veterinarians aren't educated about dog food and will condemn you for wanting to feed raw. I would go to a holistic veterinarian if you want advice from one.

Feeding raw does take more time than dumping kibble into a bowl, but I enjoy watching my dog eat species appropriate food. I love meat shopping for my dog and knowing the fact that she's eating something so healthy and appropriate.

If you have any questions, feel free to email me.

EDIT
In response to the argument that you need to balance the raw diet- do not worry about trying to balance it! The 80/10/10 ratio is just a guideline. Wolves in the wild don't worry about eating exactly 80% meat, 10% bone, and 10% organs. It's all in the poop- if you see that your dog's poop is really dusty and white, then you're feeding too much bone. If it's really runny, feed more bone.

EDIT2
In response to someone else's post, variety is NOT necessary. As long as you feed more red meat than poultry, you're fine. Tripe is NOT necessary either. Most dogs don't even get tripe as part of their diet. It does have benefits, but it's not necessary. Many dogs do just fine on just chicken, beef, pork, and the occasional fish. You don't need to go all-out and get lamb, venison, elk, moose, rabbit, or other exotic meats.

My dog's weekly diet goes something like this:

Mon: ½ lb. turkey, egg

Tues: 0.2 lb. liver, 0.2 lb. beef, 3 medallions*

Wed: 0.4 lb. OB, 3 medallions*, chicken foot

Thurs:½ lb. chicken, 1 medallion*

Fri: 0.15 lb. spleen, 0.2 lb. beef, 3 medallions*

Sat: ½ lb. pork, egg

Sun: 0.2 lb. fish, 0.2 lb. tripe, 3 medallions*

*The medallions are premade Nature's Variety medallions. I use these because beef is expensive in my area and I need a source of red meat. I like to rotate between lamb, rabbit, and venison. I feed 80% do-it-yourself and 20% premade raw.

In order to calculate how much your dogs should eat per day, I need to know their weight. Multiply that weight by 2%-3%. If they're active, go with 2.5% to 3%. If they're not active, go with 1.5% to 2%. If you find that they're either losing or gaining weight, adjust the daily amount as necessary.

Answer 2

1

Answer 3

Diseases caused by raw feeding are very rare. A dog's digestive track is meant to digest meat and can handle rotting flesh that's been exposed for a week or more. (I don't recommend feeding them rotten meat though.)

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/
http://rawfed.com/
http://www.rawmeatybones.com/papers.php
http://rawfed.com/myths/preymodel.html
Those should give you a good basis. I'll try to find the percentage calculator.

add: I can't find that calculator but each dog should get between 2-3% of it's IDEAL body weight a day. This amount can be adjusted as needed until you have found the amount that works for you. Most recommend starting with chicken, after a week add pork and eventually they'll be eating a very wide variety of food. Good Luck, You can mail me with questions too.

Answer 4

Raw feeding is not for the faint of heart or for a really busy person. Also, if you choose this avenue, please do so under the watch of a veterinarian or k9 nutritionist. This will allow you to really learn well and make good decisions.

I feed raw for some dogs, and some cats. I have found that some dogs do excellent on raw and some not so well. A very individual thing.

In terms of feeding kibble, Canidae is a good food, but Innova and Evo (grain free) is VERY excellent kibble. Pricey, but very good food. I also have dogs on both Canidae and Innova (and two on Evo).

Some dogs do well on one food, and others on another. I am honestly not sure that every dog is cut out for the exact same diet whether raw or kibble.

I understand your confusion, BTW, on raw. This is why i suggest you find a vet to help you. I have found that many homeopathic/western vets are not scared of raw diets so you may want to focus on that kind of vet with both those specialties.

Answer 5

It sort of depends on how old and how big your Great Dane and Sheltie are. For most dogs, you should just fill their food bowl in the morning and right before bed, or depending on what you prefer. If your dog is having weight problems and likes a certain type of food (raw), then I would say to give it to them. Raw food is also very healthy, and it has more nutrients and antioxidants.

Answer 6

I have two thoughts about raw: You have to get the recipe right for your dog and I think a lot of people don't and their dogs can end up with nutritional deficiencies. Also, It takes a lot of time to prepare the raw diet properly - and I have barely time to prepare a balanced diet for myself, combined with work, and all the other things I need to do to keep my pets healthy (like exercising them).

I think a top quality kibble can be just as good - I use California Natural made by Natura (same company as Innova) - it is designed for dogs with allergies and my allergic dog has never been healthier since we switched to it. All ingredients are human grade and U.S. sourced, so I feel pretty good about it. My dogs like it and it actually smells good to me - not manufactured like some dog foods.

Answer 7

I don't feed raw but I'm considering starting. I've found this site very helpful:

http://www.rawfed.com/myths/index.html

Answer 8

Many people believe in BARF

Benefits - nutrients

Bad - possible worm, bacteria and other infestations.

Do your research, it is important that they get a balanced and nutritious diet, to include some vegetable matter.

Answer 9

In my opnion raw is MUCH healthier if done right but a bit more work. Even German shepherds can be pushed to 18 years old on a raw diet. however, when feeding raw your own health is at stake, not the dog's. You could get E-coli or slamonella from preapring your dogs food. To prevent this always be sure to wash your hands with soap and water after feeding your dog. Or slap on some hand sanitizer such as Purell if your in a hurry.

Be sure to feed a variety of animal parts. Tripe is esspecially essential as well as offal and raw meaty bones can be a base diet. Sprinkling a bit of garlic powder over your dog's meat and tripe keeps fleas away from your dog. so no more hassling with Frontline! Start off with kibble in the morning and raw chicken wings, breasts,or legs(no necks) in the evening for the first week so yoru dog can get used to daily raw food.
On the second weel,drop the kibble and just feed raw chicken, the third week add in some tripe, offal,and one other meat. Dogs also like raw eggs. Let your dog crack it himself like he would in the wild. and fruits and veggies are great, but not essential. My dog loves fruits and veggies so they make up some of his diet.

I LOVE this video and would like you to watch it too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DL2KluuiKck

also Nature's Variety website has a interactive calculator in which you can find out how much your dog needs. It's very helpful. I feed my 30 pound dog 8 ounces of raw food.

Keep ALL your dog's raw food in your freezer. I put my dog's dish full of the apropriate portion of raw food my dog needs in the fridge to thaw before i go to bed. than I take the bowl out of the fridge the next morning, sprinkle on some garlic powder and give it to my dog.


Canidae is a great brand if you must feed kibble.