An age-old Scripture question?

Question

Traditionally, and according to Scripture, I have always held to the belief that the apostle Judas was never really saved to begin with. We all know what he did......and how the whole thing was predicted in the Old Testament & orchestrated by the Lord to happen the way it did.

But my question is this:
Is it possible that we may see Judas in heaven someday when we get there?

He did after all, feel deep remorse for what he had done.....right before he took his own life. He even went as far as giving back the 30 pieces of silver. This verse comes to mind:

2 Corinthians 7:10 “Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death.”

Did Judas have Godly sorrow or worldly sorrow?

Something to ponder.........thanks,

-Primo

I also think of the verses in Revelation which speak of the names of the 12 apostles being inscripted on the foundations of the new heaven.

Question is:
Which 12? Is Matthais' name there in place of Judas'?

Answer 1

First, prediction and prophecy are two totally different things. Prophecy is history told in advance--it is a done deal--it is going to happen. Prediction is looking at trends and creating an educated guess of causality. Prediction is of man, prophecy is of God. Prediction is a forecast, prophecy is from the point of view of the eternal.

Since no one was there to record any last words, we could not possibly know for sure. However, Jesus said something that might show that no, Judas will not make it. Jesus said in Mark 14:21,
"The Son of Man indeed goes just as it is written of Him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had never been born.”
Note that this woe is recorded in all three gospels. And when God says woe, He means WOE!

I highly doubt Jesus would make such a woe and pronouncement if Judas were to make it at the last minute. Remember, there were two offenses that happened that fateful night. There was Judas' betrayal, and Peter's thrice denial. Which was worse? Both were about as bad as you could get. The difference is that Jesus knew the heart of Peter, and also knew the heart of Judas. With Judas, Jesus said, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?” However with Peter, Jesus said, "...I have prayed for you, that your faith should not fail; and when you have returned to Me, strengthen your brethren.”

Judas did not have an advocate because he never wanted one. Yes, Godly sorrow brings repentance. We see this with Peter who went out and wept bitterly after his offense. But Judas was not having godly sorrow, but rather was feeling sorry for himself. He felt guilt and condemnation, which are all products of opening your soul up to the devil's lies. Like Scar in The Lion King, first he sets you up, murders the beloved, then turn and asks, "What have you done?"--thus placing you in a vulnerable position for your own demise. It's the classic ploy and assault of the devil.

As for the 12 names on the foundation, was Judas a foundation stone? No. He had nothing to do with any foundation. In fact, quite the opposite as you can see in his rebuke of Mary of Bethany anointing the feet of Jesus. If the names written there were important Jesus would have revealed it in the Revelation, as He did with the twelve tribes written on the pillars.

Was there salvation available to Judas? Yes. The blood of Christ covers ALL sin. Did Judas take it? No.

Answer 2

It is not possible.

According to 2 Corinthians 7: 10: “Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death.”

In other words, the discipline that come through repentance brings forth eternal life. The ways that Jesus gave us in His life and Word, brings eternal life. However, the ways of this world brings on sorrow, and in the end, the death of your soul. Once you understand that within the full meaning of "God's election", it means that we never say good-bye. Even though there is a parting on this earth at death to this physical body, we never say good-bye because we know we are together for an eternity. The bonding between God's children is an eternal bonding, and though there is separation for a while, in Christ we will be brought back together in God's kingdom. Even though you are apart for a while, as Paul was from Titus and the Corinthians, Christians are bonded together for an eternity.

In other words, Judas had worldly sorrow

Answer 3

wow primo, this is really good and thought provoking.

Not knowing Judas' heart we really don't know for sure much about him. Only God knows. But, based on his actions it appears he had worldly remorse. He was deeply upset that he betrayed the Christ. But, if he was Godly sorry, he would have been at the feet of Jesus begging forgiveness, instead he felt dispair which is worldly.

Because he behaved in an unGodly way, doesn't mean that he wasn't saved though. One can have salvation and go off the road so to speak. His actions weren't one of being Saved.

So, we really won't know until we arrive in heaven. Although your question is wonderful I don't think there is a real answer to it, just our opinions...ann

Answer 4

Taking the bible as written, no he was not redeemed, especially if he committed suicide which is a mortal sin.

Contrarily, accepting that the bible may not have the whole story there are many reasons to think he was redeemed.

First of all, he may not have committed suicide. The death of Judas is one of the clearest instances of inconsistencies in the NT. Did he kill himself or did his innards rip out? Saying that he hung himself and then his bowels fell is really just apologetics, it answers the question but does not make logical sense. Maybe metaphorically he killed himself by his acts but not literally.
In fact he may have been one of the violent rebels of the Jewish-Roman wars, renouncing the peaceful way of Jesus and dying with his boots (sandals) on.

Second of all he may have been a knowing participant in the prophecies. Even ignoring the apocryphal but popular Gospel of Judas, there is evidence in the bible that Jesus may have been grooming Judas for his role. It is tough to tell because it is obvious that some of the other apostles were jealous of the attention he got, and all of the gospels are biased because they were written after the betrayal.

You are right. On several occasions there is reference to all 12 apostles having a place in heaven as well as history.

BTW as an outspoken and devout Christian, I am proud of you for even considering such controversial subject matter.

Answer 5

I actually had to write an essay in high school for an Honors English class defending or opposing Dante's placement of Judas in the 9th circle in his "Inferno." At the time I opposed it based upon the belief that he was doing God's work in his betrayal.

I believe the difference between Godly sorrow and worldly sorrow in Judas' case would depend upon whether he at some point realized he had sinned against God and handed over His son. Since we can't know that, we can't say with any certainty one way or another.

Either scenario is possible IMO if you believe that it is possible for one to be forgiven AFTER death.

Interesting question.

Answer 6

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Judas 'repentance' was worldly sorrow. Judas is very certainly in hell. May God have mercy upon us. If it had been godly sorrow, he would have gone and seek forgiveness from His Saviour. Thus, if an Apostle can go to hell, what more lesser mortal like us? Many are called, few chosen.


He despised the very God-man came to save him, and he had 'frustrate' the grace of God, ie he never really had true repentance.

I agree with someone who wrote that the most damning thing was that Judas resisted the inward attestation of the Holy Spirit (which is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit) that Jesus Christ was indeed, the Son of God.

Who is the twelveth Apostle? Not Apostle Matthias, for he was chosen of men. Verily, verily................. it is the Apostle Paul for. Did not you all realise that the blessed Holy Spirit inspired this great saint of God to write for our edification..... In Galatians ch1, Paul asserted his calling as an Apostle.

Gal 1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)


SOLA SCRIPTURA, the cry of Reformation.



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Answer 7

I think that Judas had worldly sorrow.
The Bible clearly indicates that Judas was not saved. Jesus Himself said of Judas, “The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born” (Matthew 26:24). John 17:12 also says concerning Judas, “While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.” At one time, though, Judas believed that Jesus was a prophet, or possibly even believed He was the Messiah. Jesus sent the disciples out to proclaim the Gospel and perform miracles (Luke 9:1-6). Judas was included in this group. Judas had faith, but it was not a true faith, or at best it was a very shallow faith. Judas was never “saved” but for a time he was a follower of Christ.

Answer 8

Second of all he may have been a knowing participant in the prophecies. Even ignoring the apocryphal but popular Gospel of Judas, there is evidence in the bible that Jesus may have been grooming Judas for his role. It is tough to tell because it is obvious that some of the other apostles were jealous of the attention he got, and all of the gospels are biased because they were written after the betrayal.

Answer 9

First, it's spelled the Hubble Telescope. Second, doesn't your book say the universe is 6000 years old? Third, even if the book was accurate down to the second about the age of the universe, it doesn't automatically validate any other claims in the book nor should it be seen as anything other than a coincidence (or perhaps that they had some very good tools for determining the age of the universe back in the day)

Answer 10

Kait gave a good scripture reference, about what Jesus said about Judas. I had never actually pondered this before,(about him being in heaven) I have always known that Judas was not saved to begin with, and this entire story was a lesson to show us that even people who claim to know God, even in the church, may not be saved. To show us how easily it is to be in bondage to the world and its riches...to have secret lives that do not glorify God. This is everywhere too! Sad isn't it? I would say he felt a worldly remorse, just from what the Bible reads. Shows us there are wolves in our midst!