Four year old deliberately manipulating parents?

Question

We have a four year old daughter, she is very smart and VERY stubborn. She gets in "moods" for days where she is nasty and has absolute tantrums over everything. She also can go for days without a problem, sweet and compliant. When she refuses to do as she is told, yelling at me and my husband, telling US what to do, we put her in time out or put her in her room with the door closed and no tv. She immediately goes from tyrant to crying and pleading for mommy or daddy, asking to snuggle, wanting a hug and a kiss. Could she really be deliberately manipulating us? How can we regain control? We are getting desprate. I want my sweet girl all of the time. I realize kids have bad days but PLEEEEEASE! She completely freaks out when she doesnt get her way half the time. And when she is like this it is impossible to get her to do anything. She knows how to clean up after herself but when she doesnt want to, hell would freeze over before she will do as she is told. Help, please.

Answer 1

Put a hand on her behind and tears in her eyes.....That will stop it.

Answer 2

I can answer that because I also am a proud mother of a drama queen, now turned 7, almost 8. 4 is fun, isnt' it? lol Fist off, she is asking for hugs. That can be manipulative. BUT on the other hand it could be intincual. Kids that are sent to their room get the impression that they are bad. That is why time outs are best done in a main living area in a time out chair. Also don't stop affection, don't yell.. that type of thing. The idea is 'you are a good person who just made a bad choice. My love for you is still the same and I will still show that love, even while you are in trouble'. that is the atitude behind my actions. As for yelling at me. OMG. My kid used to yell at me. She used to swing at me. She used to lunge at me, throw things, tell me she hated me! that stuff is abuse and I WILL NOT tolerate being treated like that. All gloves off. If your child is abusing you (and yelling is VERY disrepectful.. you to her and visa versa). That is when I forget about 'nice' paretning. Rewards go out the window. I will not be treated like that. I am very consistent. I tell her that she has just lost her tv for the day. Than I tell her what happens next so she knows what the consequence will be. "If you do that again you loose you video game." She does that again, take away video privelges and warn her of the next thing. I keep telling her also. Priveleges are for people in this house who are respectful. I do not yell. I try not to appear upset. I am just serious and mean business. In my house, when I get quiet... my kids get scared of what will happen. The silence of death, lol. I have informed my little drama queen that family comes first and all she need to live is a pillow and a blanket in her room with 2 changes of clothes and that I have an empty garbage can and know some really needy people that need girls things or that need to buy them from a thrift store. I don't go all irrational and throw things out. If the demenor is something like yelling, I will let her earn her item back. the thing is consistency. My daughter knows what she did wrong and what the consequence will be before she even does it. Today she was at the table and the food was so good that she was licking her plate with her tongue. It was so funny and I managed not to laugh. The problem was that I told her that if she used bad manners again, she would have to do the supper dishes by herself. I know she did not lick the plate to be unmannerly, she was just being a kid. But I am big on consistency and I told her that she will now do all the dishes herself. She was instantly angry and showed self control and stomped off to her room to be alone (before she would have taken it out on me verbally or phsyically). She had her spoon in her hand and had it raised to throw it hard... she caught herself and dropped her hand and dropped the spoon. When she came out, in control of her emotions... she picked up her spoon and did dishes.

Now of course I am all over that with praise and a 'yes' on her chart. It is not about punishment, it is about behavorial shaping.... for which a little reward is a great preventive measure. Although it sounds to me like you are more past that and need some real serious punishment.

OK. that was long. good luck:)

Answer 3

As hard as it is you just have to stick to the punishments. If you put her on a time out she needs to stay in her room until you tell her she can get out. It doesn't matter if she says she's sorry or not. Tell her that if she has something to say she needs to wait until her punishment is over. I had a major problem with my boyfriends daughter and she is 5 now. She is finally learning that she is not the parent and that she will get punished if she doesn't listen. She gets a warning, then she gets a time out, then she loses her toys with another time out and then she gets to sit in her room by herself for the rest of the day. So, if you count the original time that I asked her to do something she gets another 5 chances before she has to sit in her room for the remainder of the day. I would normally not do this with a 5 year old, but this is the only thing that works with her. She is VERY manipulative because she can do it with her mother. You and your husband just have to come up with a punishment that you will both stick to and NEVER give in. She can only control you if you let her.

Answer 4

Yeah, she's manipulating you, but this isn't a sign that she's a diabolical genius or anything.

She's putting you in a bad position, because you don't want to withhold love or affection (if you do, you shouldn't have kids), but you also know she needs to be disciplined.

I would say be firm about the time out, but make it reasonable. When she gets upset, or she misbehaves FROM time-out, she gets time added on to the recommended 4 minutes for her age. Set a timer for when she can get out of time out ,and put it where she can see it. Don't take time off, though. Let her know that you'll play when she's done with time out, and be firm about it.

My kids often require me standing right there, especially when they were first getting used to me being really strict about the time out.

When it's all over, get on her level and tell her that you love her, and you want her to show you she loves you by being nice (or specify exactly what she did wrong). Give her a hug, and distract her with some other activity.


When she's screaming for Mommy or Daddy, a snuggle, hug or kiss or whatever, say in a positive voice, "I would love to! After you finish time-out."

Also, what happens when she is defiant? You need to be forcing yourself to have the mindset each time that SHE IS NOT IN CHARGE.

If she knows how to clean up after herself and pick up her toys, but refuses to do it, don't leave the mess, and don't just do it for her. Get a trash bag and put every toy you find on the floor in it. Then use them for leverage. She misbehaves, she gets no toy back. She does what you tell her to, she gets ONE of her toys back. The next day, do the same thing.

Don't be concerned about telling her "You know what, I'm bigger than you are and I'm GOING to win this fight. You do things my way, you get to play and have your privileges back. You do it your way, and you lose your toys and go in time out. It's up to you." Then follow through. If she refuses, no matter how awkward it is, physically MAKE her.

She's stubborn. Eventually, she'll be known for being driven and determined, but right now, she's just plain stubborn. :-)

You need to be more stubborn than she is.

Remember, it's okay to have a bad day or to be in a bad mood, but bad actions should never be justified. She needs to learn that regardless of what she FEELS like doing, there are rules she needs to follow in every circumstance.

Helping her learn that lesson is a lot more important than feeling bad about withholding a hug for the four minutes she's in time out.

Answer 5

She is manipulating you because you are letting her. They learn very quickly how to get their way. She knows the rules you just have to stick to them. Do not give in ever. When she sees that her tantrums do not work and she can have or do nothing until she complies she will start to behave better. You have to retrain her from the pattern she is in. It will take some doing but you have to do it.

Answer 6

I agree with the others.........she is definitely manipulating you!! GET CONTROL NOW.......if not it only gets worse!! Do not let her get out of her punishment. You might even want to make them (punishments) a bit stricter. We have a child that was like that at 4, he also had ODD though. Our behavior therapist told us to tell him, that when he asks for a hug when he has done something bad....tell him that hugs and kisses are not rewards for bad behavior. If you think that she won't understand this, you are sadly mistaken. Children are so very smart, they understand more than you think. It took about 3 weeks worth of CONSISTANCY!!!!; but it worked!
What ever you decide to do with her, PLEASE be consistent with what you do, not only for her sake, but for your sanity.

Good Luck
Momma P

Answer 7

It sounds to me like you are letting her manipulate you. Sure you "punish" her (if that is what you call making her sit still for a few minutes) but if you give in as soon as she starts whining, she isn't learning that what she did is wrong, she is learning if she acts a certain way, she can get away with anything. You are making her continue to act this way through your actions, and if you don't alter how you disipline her, and actually follow through with punishments when she does something wrong, you will never have control.

Answer 8

Yes, you're in a battle for control here and she is manipulating you. Hehe, I used to do this. I still remember. The best thing you can do at this point is be firm. Don't cave into her demands, no matter how noisy she gets.

Answer 9

She freaks out, well, because you let her have her way too many times in the first place.
Take her whole world away when she refuses to behave. Including, gasp, 'throwing' her favorite toy away.

Answer 10

Yep, this is a classic control battle. Yes, she is manipulating you.

Jim Fay has solutions: http://www.loveandlogic.com/