Iraq vetrans against the war - What should I make of this group ?

Question

http://www.ivaw.org/faq

Answer 1

Whatever you want.

Saying they aren't "true" soldiers when they've seen the horrors of war and no longer agree with it is nonsense. Everyone I've met who's seen war hates war.

Answer 2

Well, here's my take,

Most of their "facts" have an obvious "liberal media" skew.

(1) The fact that they object to "banning the filming of our fallen's caskets ", and "they refuse to allow the media into Walter Reed Hospital and other Veterans Administration facilities " shows that this site wished to USE veterans to glorify they're own agenda. If I'm in the hospital, I don't want to see a film crew either!

(2) The Iraq war is a response to violations of International Law, not a violation. That would be like arresting a cop for shooting an armed suspect.

(3) People making money off the war? Say it aint so! (I put back $20,000 dollars tax free!)

(4) The civilian casuallties are bad, but the Military is only responsibly for a small percentage of them. The percentage they are responsibly for is usually caused when bad guys hide in someones home.

(5) Just because the terrorist aren't in Kansas doesn't make the war illegal. Soldiers do have the right to refuse illegal ORDERS, there is no such thing as an illegal WAR. War usually implies a suspension of normal laws that are replaced with martial laws. Only the President can make a war illegal. He may have lied to get congressional approval, but he did get it.

(6) Soldiers always face health risk, even at home on leave.

(7) Deployments are stressful on families, probably the toughest part of the job.

(8) This may be the only thing they did get absolutely right! We could be spending all that money here at home!

(9) Dehumanizing? I suspose Saddam Hussein elevated the Iraqi people to a new plane of existance? The simple fact is, The Mesopotamian people have never had a decent government with a decent constitution until now! They have always been ruled by warlords, kings and tyrants. Some held great power for many years, but most of them were too weak to empower their people for themselves, and the people have suffered for it countless times throughout history. One of the main reasons for so much violence in Iraq is that the factions that held small amounts of power are loosing it now. This may be the turning point that turns Iraq into a Great Nation, and not another banana republic.

(10) Military strength is questionably, but it also is being strengthen is ways that money can't buy. Our soldiers are smarter and tougher now. We know what equipment works and what didn't. Now the Government needs to address soldier care issues, such as combat stress and medical care.

This looks to be a "paper" organization. The website was probably built to make some candidate look bad, and another look good.

(I also noticed that Jason Hurd listed his combat duties in central Bagadad with F-Troop 2/278 ACR. I was under the impression that F-Troop was at Camp Caldwell about 70 miles from Bagdad?)

Answer 3

Well, considering they had Jesse Macbeth as a Poster boy (he's in Jail for being a Fraud) a supposed Ranger who killed 240 in Fallujah(and actually was thrown out of Basic Training after 49 days as Unfit)

Jimmy Massey who fraudulently claimed Massacres that on scene reporters say never happened(He also claims we use Depleted Uranium .50 Browning Rounds(No such thing has ever existed)

Micah Wright, another Fraud who claimed Combat service when he clearly had never served in combat


I think they are Dull Tools for this Country's Fifth Column. They broke the covenant with their Brothers and Sisters on the Firing line.

I woulndt PIzz on them if they were on fire

That Helpful to you?

Answer 4

Just because they have been to Iraq doesn't mean that they have given up their right to free speech.
I don't have to agree or disagree with them to be willing to put a uniform back on if needed to protect that right.
So those of you that would condemn them for doing so are the ones that I would tend to take issue with.
When what they are doing only becomes a valid issue when it aids or abets the enemy .

Answer 5

Well I just followed the link and explored the site of the IVAW. I must say that before hand I was a bit undecided. However after the site visit I feel that the group:
1. Supports those who violate their oaths by "fleeing to Canada", "Missing Movement" Etc.
2. Has a campaign that seems to be in effect trying to clog the recruiting system by wasting time of recruiters on those who have no intention of joining the military.
3. Seems to have a anti-establishment bent. Anything Government is bad.

Thus I think that they are entitled to their opinions, but I think that they are wrong and inane. War Resistors or Deserters?

Answer 6

They been there and seen the situation. I also have family members that have been to Iraq and now they all mess up in the head and always under medicine to stop their flashbacks and stop them from getting up in the middle of the night and try to "kill terrorist"

Answer 7

Take it for what it's worth. You don't have to agree with the reasons for war to serve in it. We follow orders.

Answer 8

They are entitled to their openion. They fought for their right of free speech and let them talk.

I think their facts are a little misleading, but sometimes so are the pro-war advecits. So take the good with the bad.

Best thing you can do is read up on both sides of the situation and with a little luck and common sense you sometimes can find the truth.

Here are just a few things to consider:
2. The Iraq war violates international law: UN Passed a resultion authorizing the US and Allies to invadire Iraq.
3.Overwhelming civilian casualties are a daily occurrence in Iraq: The number is no where near 100 as the place describes. I have been here for a half year and I would say that NE Baghdad as probably had around 300 civilian casualties total. Most of them are suicide bombers blowing up other Iraq civilians in crowded markets trying to make the evening news.
5. Soldiers have the right to refuse illegal war - If Congress approved the war, then it is not illegal from a US stand point and you can not refuse. The UN also authorised action.
6. Service members are facing serious health consequences due to our Government's negligence. - Yes and no. There are some who are and there is a hick of a lot more who are not.
7. The war in Iraq is tearing our families apart. - Some but not all. If you truely loved your spouce like you stated in your vows when you married them, a 4,6,12 or 15 month deployment should not get in the way. Yes it is hard to be away from family, but the military makes a great effort to help spouces with several programs. Though, those that do get divorsed from deployments were probably destined to get divorsed at a later point anyways. There obviousely are a lot more factors leading to a divorse then a deployment.
8. The Iraq war is robbing us of funding sorely needed here at home. - Wrong. The money being used from this war is being borrowed against other countries. Your taxes are still going to schools, healthcare, streets repairs, ect...

9. The war dehumanizes Iraqis and denies them their right to self-determination. - I have been thanked by plenty of Iraqi's for doing my job. Then again I've been shot at by several too for doing my job. No new government moves forward like clockword. There will always be hickups in its infancy. Give them time to learn from their mistakes. Democracy is complelty foreign to them having just came from a Dictatorship.

10.Our military is being exhausted by repeated deployments, involuntary extensions, and activations of the Reserve and National Guard. - Yes, there are lots of people who are tired of deployments, then again there are lots the volenteer for them too. While it sucks to be away from home for a deployment, it is the job that you signed up for and thats what some people forget.

Answer 9

In the Marine Corps there is an old saying, and this is it:

There's always THAT 10%.

What that means is that there is an inevitable group of cry babies that can not wrap there head around the mission and will turn their backs on their fellow warriors, even if that means that they are giving aid and comfort to the enemy.

Those people are cowards and if you are prepared to back them then you are no better than John Kerry and Nancy/Harry/ and Ted.

Wake up and smell the jihad. the muslim clerics love it when Americans buy into this BS.

Semper Fi

Answer 10

Lets examine their reasons for being against the war:

THEY SAY....The Iraq war is based on lies and deception.

No.....There were no "LIES or DECEPTION".....to lie or deceive requires the person KNOW the truth....President Bush and half the world believed the reasons for going to war were factual.....ergo they did not lie or attempt to deceive. Were they wrong about some things? Probably but even the much ranted about WMD's were in fact present.....and found but just not in the quantities to satisfy the liberals. ( BTW.....Motherearth News is a flaming liberal rag and hardly a fair and balanced source )

The Iraq war violates international law.

N0.....The Iraq war was fully justified under serveral statutes not the least of which being Saddam FAILED to comply with the UN Peace Accords......resulting in the resumption of Operation Desert Storm.

Corporate profiteering is driving the war in Iraq.

There were corporate profteers in the Civil War.....Does the fact that "someone" profits from war make the need for that war invalid? Should we not have ended slavery because some merchant got rich selling supplies to the military?

Overwhelming civilian casualties are a daily occurrence in Iraq.

Not by our hand. We take extrodinary care NOT to kill civilians.....often at the risk of our own troop lives. Let me ask these veterans a question......how do they know which are civilians and which are terrorists when they all look alike so that you can come up with these "overwhelmimg casualties".....BTW a poll of Iraqis has been taken in which 71% support the war even though it has caused chaos and destruction.

Soldiers have the right to refuse illegal war.

That is why Mohammad Ali went to jail.....He exercised that right during the Vietnam War. What the soldier does not have the right to do is determine what is "legal or illegal" when the Congress says otherwise. Congress authorized the war making it "legal"

Service members are facing serious health consequences due to our Government's negligence.

You are right. War is not healthy for living things.....but I do not believe the government is anymore "negligent" than it is normally

The war in Iraq is tearing our families apart.

And your point is? Evey war including WW II tore families apart....Sometimes like the Civil war bothers were killing brothers.....Literally. That still does not negate the reasonfor the war.

The Iraq war is robbing us of funding sorely needed here at home.

Can not argue with that. But not going to war now could mean GREATER costs later. Greater costs not only in money but in American lives. Better a few thousand professional voluteers than potentally millions..... most of whom would be innocent civilians.

The war dehumanizes Iraqis and denies them their right to self-determination.

"Right to self determination" We lost 4,000 American lives so they could have free democratic election for the first time in their history.....how is that "dehumanizing" them..... how is that denying them "self determination"?

Our military is being exhausted by repeated deployments, involuntary extensions, and activations of the Reserve and National Guard.

And re-enlistments an tour extensions are at an all time record high.....a blind poll of troops showed over 90% supported the war..... and they are there risking their lives....seems like that should mean more than a handful of disgruntled veterans.

The reasons and rationale given for the invasion were fraudulent.

No.... they all wre valid.... you wnt a list
Saddam declared war on America
Saddam tried repeatedly to kill US troops
Saddam paid $25,000 to terrorist to attack Americans
Saddam tried to assassinate a itting US President
Saddam trained Al Quida terrorists ( we have film of him at the graduation)
Saddam loaned Osama money ( we have the records of the transaction)
Saddam did have WMD's ( I can prove it)
Saddam failed to comply with UN Peace Accords
I can go on .....there are several more but you get the direction this is going

The presence of the US military is not preventing sectarian violence.

According to the latest news sectarian violence is DOWN 76%......sure was not the "Veterans Against The War" who did that???/

The occupation is a primary motivation for the insurgency and global religious extremism.

Some truth to that..... but do we follow the faile policy of ignoring them and NOT fighting them that led to hundreds of terrorist attacks against Amercans around the world.....or invade and fight which has STOPPED those attacks for 6 years.....not a hard choice for me.....or the families of the 214 sleeping Marines slaughtered in Beruit......or the familis of the 200+ people on the planes blown up over Lockerby

We can no longer afford to fight this war of choice.

Not a war of choice.....but a war NEEDED to halt terrorism....the first justified war in 60 years

You get my point.....this group has no more validity than any other group of liberals.......

Answer 11

this is what i make of them.they are a bunch of johnny come lately who saw on TV the the viet nam vets against the war and wanted their 15 minutes of fame.
as one who didn't like what i went thru back in 66 and still don't know why,i wouldn't do anything that might in any way put the people in further danger who are present in theater.