why do some senior NCO hate saluting junior Officers?

Question

My friend is a doctor and got a direct commission in the military. He has been on active duty for a total of 3 months now. We were walking to our car in the parking lot at the commissary, and my friend was in uniform. An E7 and a E8 walked by us and didn't even salute him. They completely ignored him.

I know he is just a new Officer, but aren't Soldiers suppose to salute the rank, not the man? I don't see the big deal, why a Soldier doesn't want to lift their hand for 2 seconds and give the proper military courtesy.

My friend didn't care. He actually found it funny and laughed. But as for me, I didn't find it funny at all. He is a Captain and a doctor and deserves the proper respect!

It is thier DUTY to salute Officers!!!!! I don't care if they have been in for 100 years or 1 day! Just do your job people!!

and no, I am not in the military. I have too much going for me to waste it on that. Don't get my wrong, I support our troop 100%. It's just not for me

Okay, forget it then... this is just yahoo answers for good sakes. Why are some of you getting upset? lol. I just thought that since my friend is a Officer, maybe his rank gives him to right to be saluted by enlisted people. It's not a question of respect, it's a question of duty.. For some reason, people think just becase a person salutes somebody , that means they have to respect them.

My friend is a good hearted and smart person, he graduated medical school in the top 15% of his class. He worked in a hospital for several years as a surgeon before he decided to join the military. He takes his mom to church on Sundays and helps pay his siblings' way through college. He didn't have to join the military, but he did, because he loves to serve his country.

These senior NCO's didn't even know him personally and they decided not to salute him just becase he was just a junior officer. This is just not cool. But honestly, it's no big deal, I really don't care.

My friend is not a young kid straight out of college. He is 32 years old. But his total time in service is 3 months. He is very new to the military and is still learning the ways of the Army. Medical doctors get promoted to Captain, through direct commission if you didn't know. He just got of OBC a few weeks ago. Even a E1 private has more military experience than he does. Give me a break, the Army was built on tradition, discipline, hard work, and the cost of the lives of many brave men and women. Keep yacking about junior officers not deserving salutes, who are you to talk? I am not talking about who deserve more respect, I am talking about giving one lousy salute to an officer. Such hippocrites, I bet a million bucks if you were in my shoes you would feel the same way I do

these "damn proud" angry wives are hilarious. lol

Answer 1

You didn't mention which base you were on, so I can't say for certain -- but usually hospitals, theaters, post exchanges and commissaries are 'No Salute Areas'.

This keeps your friends right arm from being worn out anytime he goes shopping. About 95% of the people he will pass in any parking lot will slaute him. Can you imagine going to the PX on a busy day with a full parking lot?

Now put yourself in the shoes of the post commander -- 100% of the soldiers he will pass in the PX parking lot will salute him. When "Honey, bring home a gallon of milk" causes him to return 200 salutes, the "No Salute Area" signs will go up quickly.

Is it possible that you didn't know you were in a 'no salute area'?

I would also wonder if you and your friend were deep in conversation or if your friend was otherwise distracted. It is considered impolite to interupt for purposes of saluting.

Answer 2

I am married to a 32 year veteran of the Army (my husband is an officer) and he has NEVER been saluted in the Commissary or the PX or parking lots when I was with him. Those buildings and their respective parking areas are usually designated "non saluting areas" on most bases and posts. I think that might be the reason your friend was not saluted.

I took the following straight out of the Army Study Handbook on my husband's desk: Hope it helps.

"The salute is widely misunderstood outside the military. Some consider it to be a gesture of servility since the junior extends a salute to the senior, but we know that it is quite the opposite. The salute is an expression that recognizes each other as a member of the profession of arms; that they have made a personal commitment of self-sacrifice to preserve our way of life. The fact that the junior extends the greeting first is merely a point of etiquette—a salute extended or returned makes the same statement.

All soldiers in uniform are required to salute when they meet and recognize persons entitled (by grade) to a salute except when it is inappropriate or impractical (in public conveyances such as planes and buses, in public places such as inside theaters, or when driving a vehicle).

Salutes are not required when:

Indoors, unless reporting to an officer or when on duty as a guard.
A prisoner.
Saluting is obviously inappropriate. In any case not covered by specific instructions, render the salute.
Either the senior or the subordinate is wearing civilian clothes."

Answer 3

you are correct in that those NCOs should have given a salute, but I do not know the situation.

However, there may be reasons... they may not have been paying attention. May have been busy with something..ect.
Many times if you are in a place that is loaded with brass you don't salute at every officer, as you would never stop saluting.

also note, that you do not salute if the person is around 10 paces from you.

A rule of thumb would be, salute if you both recognize each other. It is a courtesy like saying hello to some one.
Given the description you give, it is likely that your friend was not putting out a "vibe" that he was interested or noticed them. If an officer is doing something and not paying attention to you, it would not be appropriate to interupt them do exchange salutes.

Disrespect happens if the enlisted personal intentionally does not salute, even though the situation is appropriate, out of disrespect. The same thing can happen if the officer does not notice the salute, and does not return it (happens often)..


For instance I am an NCO. When a pvt is talking to me he should be at parade rest.. However, I'm not going to make every Joe go to parade rest anytime he wants to ask me a quick question, is in the middle of doing something, or if we are in a casual setting.

Answer 4

Anyone who says because these senior NCO's didn't salute because they have been there done that is complete BS. These are Senior NCO's who set the example for their younger troops and are proffessionals. I have known Lieutenants that have fought on the streets of Baghdad and E-9s that have done nothing but ride a desk their entire career. Not saying that the complete opposit isn't true.

The bottom line is, its military tradition and a sign of respect that is issued BOTH ways between enlisted, NCOs, and Officers that is always initiated by the more junior member.

They probably didn't see your friend or mistook his rank. I find it hard to believe proffesionals such as NCOs would just blatently disrespect one of our oldest traditions.

Answer 5

Bah, you see both sides of the issue. When I'm walking to and from the comissary I make the judgement call... was the person distracted, did they have their hands full, etc? If the person willfully chose not to salute, you stop them and correct that behavior on the spot.

Second, I have had the distinct pleasure to work with both great SNCOs and some pretty lousy ones. Generally, the character and disposition of a troop can be guaged by the details. A GOOD SNCO doesn't hold grudges against CGOs, even in light of the stereotypes (that often turn out to be true). It's a matter of good order and personal discipline. If someone gets the small stuff, they're more likely to get the big stuff too.

Case in point: we have an E-9 in my squadron who is, in my opinion, awesome. He and I are both opinionated, however, and we'll get into "discussions" over technical issues of equipment. The other day, in the middle of a conversation, he accidently called me by my first name. I didn't choose to say anything about it... why? because IMMEDIATELY afterwards he came up to me and appologized. In the same way, I've appologized to him when i've been in the wrong. We have a mutual respect that, despite both our strong personalities, makes us a good team and therefore a good asset to the Air Force.

Counter example: We had a chief who hated LTs. When I was new to the Air Force, I had a pretty good idea. I told one of MY NCOs about this idea, and word got out that the new LT had thought of something. Before even hearing my idea the chief went and complained to the flight commander that i was overrunning his authority and ignoring his experience and advice. After it came out, however, that the staff package i was sending up was going through the chief FIRST before anyone else saw it... there was little doubt that someone was holding a grudge and it wasn't the CGO. In fact, I never met a LT who could work effectively with that SNCO, and a lot of potential got smashed in that bad blood.

Just as there are bad CGOs who fit the stereotypes to a T, there are bad SNCOs who make the situation worse. THAT is why we respect the rank and not the person, because each PERSON should be given their own individual chance to excel WITHOUT the stigma of stereotypes dragging them down.

Answer 6

Most direct commissions don't care. Our Chaplain will actually do everything possible to avoid being saluted. One time he grabbed a guy's hand and shook it before he could salute.

There's a chance your friend gave the impression that he did not want to be saluted, such as looking the other way and refusing to make eye contact. This happened a lot in Iraq, and in such cases, if I would, I would refrain from saluting.

Now, if you're not in the military, it's not your concern.

Answer 7

There is no hating about it, a salute is required under military regulations for the rank the person is carrying, its not given to the person themselves.

Your friend is compounding the problem by allowing such disrespect, after all he has an obligation to his rank as well.

Both the E7 & E8 should have been stood to attention and chewed out.

Answer 8

I'm dropping the flag on this one. The incident didn't happen. E-7 and E-8 not saluting an O-3 outside? Never happened.

Answer 9

"It is their DUTY to salute Officers!!!!! I don't care if they have been in for 100 years or 1 day! Just do your job people!!"

Right there. It is their 10th general order: "To salute all officers, and all colors and standards not cased."


If your friend didn't care, he isn't that good of an officer. If such a thing occurs, these people should be reprimanded on the spot (didn't salute, sloppy salute, etc.). It doesn’t matter if he is a Captain or a Second Lieutenant, he failed in his duty as an officer for failing to discipline those men and/or women for their failure to abide by regulations and enforce standing orders.

Of course, this is all under the premise that these men and/or women saw and were aware of his rank, were within 7-10 paces (I don't recall the exact distance), and purposely refused to salute him (as a sign of disrespect).

I am aware that NCOs and SNCOs are some of the most important people within our military. However, a lack of tact and proper military courtesy within the ranks of NCOs and SNCOs will quickly lead to dissention in the lower ranks since NCOs and SNCOs set the example for all enlisted men and women. It is their obligation to teach junior officers the ropes and help them be good leaders (that’s why NCOs and SNCOs are SIs at OCS). Maintaining their professionalism, even in the face of a know-it-all butter bar, is essential to maintaining good order and discipline within the military.

Answer 10

He should have jacked them up on the spot! Both of those clowns needed a good chewing out. Juniors are required to exchange salutes with seniors. Note that I wrote "exchange". The junior initiates the salute and the senior returns it. Those two NCOs demonstrated that they don't respect one of the abiding traditions and regulations of the military.
I'm a retired officer of the Navy Medical Department. I also spent 13 years as an enlisted man before gaining my commission. If I had encountered these two, your doctor friend would have had to do a lot of debridement on their buttocks after I got through with them.