Will God* judge me (will he send me "up" or "down" as he sees fit) or is it that I decide (and he has no say)?

Question

There seem to be conflicting beliefs here & I still don't understand. I'm talking about mainstream Christian perspectives like Catholicism & Protestantism. I've already received an answer from a Calvinist so... no need to have that explained to me again.

Anyhow... I've noticed two distinct perspectives & I want to know if y'all consider them reconcilable or if you're sure that it's one way or the other.

One point of view asserts that God judges us. We try to do what we're told, we ask forgiveness, we accept Jesus as our savior, we do good things & pray & donate to charity & help old ladies across the street, etc. And then God judges us. HE gets to decide where we go. HE has the final say.

Another point of view states that our actions & beliefs (like those mentioned above: our faith in God/Jesus, our good deeds, our obedience, etc) constitute a decision on our part. This is OUR decision to either do what's necessary to qualify for Heaven or to not do what's necessary. (continued..)

Therefore, God basically says “It ain’t up to me what happens to after your mortal life. Your final destination will be chosen by you and I won’t get involved at all except to say ‘here are the rules, ignore them at your peril’. Choose wisely because I WON'T FORCE YOU into either place”.

Is this kind of “do it yourself” perspective at odds with the “God decides” perspective? It seems to me that they ARE at odds with each other, but I fully expect many artfully woven prose persuading me of the opposite. If you plan on saying “it’s both because you can choose to qualify and then he’ll judge you”, refer back to the first perspective. You aren’t saying anything different than that. If you plan on saying “it’s both because God decided what the rules are and you have to follow them to get in”, refer back to the second perspective. You aren’t saying anything different than that.

*by using this term, I mean to say “the Judeo-Christian, Biblical, Abrahamic deity Yahweh.”

--->ALL of the details ARE important<---

Please read them all. Then again, if you don't have the time to waste... well... then don't waste your time answering.

"It's ultimately His decision not ours. But people send themselves to hell not God."

Hello, two diametrically opposed propositions.

Answer 1

Another point of view? I was raised baptist, just to give an idea of where i'm coming from. This theory also covers all that aren't christian, with the assumption that the christian god is the only true god. (I'm trying to be open minded... this theory has been questioned by many, and i've found it's pretty mainstream around my circle)

The theory i've beleived in, simply is stated as such: You will live your life, knowing good from bad, in the phisical world. That is a basic instinct (granted, some don't have that instinct, but hey.... some don't have thumbs either...:P ) No matter what you do in your life, you will have to answer for it. that would be, judgement day (the day your soul leaves this earth). the second you die, you are given god's knowlege. He gives you all of the knowlege you need to decide for yourself what is true. Is Jesus Jesus? Is God God? Was stealing the candy when i was 5 years old wrong? He will tell you. It is then that God looks into your heart to see what you beleive. remorse? Love? based on your emotions at that moment is where 'judgement' comes from. If you beleive God and love god, you will go to heaven, and be with God there. If you don't love and believe in God, you are cast from heaven. I personally, don't beleive in 'blazing hell' per se, because the bible's definition of hell is 'to be away from God'. To not have god in your life or heart.

This theory works for every human, simply because it's a one-on-one thing with god... it doesn't matter if you've ever gone to church or read the bible... it's simply what is in your heart.

:) one point of view. not sure if it answers your question exactly like you were intending,,,, but i hope so. :)

have a good day!!!

Answer 2

It is our choice. We either accept or reject His offer.
Because God makes the rules, and is the most honorable being in existence, when we break His rules, we insult His honor. We say in essence, "You are not deserving to make rules. I do not pay any attention to you." When we sin we disregard God's authority and say He has and deserves no honor. Since this is untrue, a punishment is required, and the matching punishment is shame, the opposite of honor. And thus we cannot stand in His presence.
Hell is simply separation from God for eternity, nothing more, but that alone could be 'torture' for many.
When Jesus was crucified, he underwent the most shameful treatment a person could have had in that time and place. But because he was deity, his own honor value was as high as God's. And so he paid the only price that would satisfy an "honor insult" to the God who was of greatest honor -- giving up his own greatest honor for our sake, and being "shamed" in our place.

Some say that deeds save us, but because we can never earn the same honor that God has naturally, this would not be possible. In fact, our good works should come as a natural result of our believing that Jesus saved us. Because we are (or should be) grateful to Jesus, we also ought to do things to serve him, to show we are grateful. That is where our good works come in: Not as a requirement, but as a result, an outworking of our faith.

Although some get a 'get out of jail free card' there will still be judgement for their actions - I believe there will be accountability of some sort. But the end result is they get to spend eternity in heaven.

Answer 3

first let us define some terms:
judgement: a person recieves from God what they are due

salvation: a person is at peace with God and his sin is removed by Jesus' death on the cross

works: what a person does, either as a believer or a non-believer

believer: (biblical definition) one who accepts Jesus as God and believes he died and rose again to save them

there are two schools of though that flow in "secular" christianity. the first is salvation by works. that is, if you don't do some specific things, you will not, can not be saved.

while almost exclusive to the roman catholic church, the church of christ also buy into this lie

the second thought is that Jesus alone saves as long as you do not renounce him and don't sin after you have forgiveness or if you die without asking, you go to hell

these are by and large the two most prominate teaching that I know of.

within biblical christianity, you are saved by grace through faith, that is you believe that Jesus died for you and rose the 3rd day and you will be saved.

In the first group, secular christianity, works are critical and you must do a lot of them. In biblical christianity, you do them out of love for Jesus to honor him and to hopefully show people that salvation is a better way of life now, and in the future.

both teach the future is heaven, but the first group is actually buying into a lie. salvation is only through the LORD God and by the work of Jesus Christ.

religion is like flocks of birds. people with certain mentalities tend to group together.

for example, water babtism. does it save? no, it makes you wet. but there are those who will fight to the death saying if you are not babtized you can't be saved. (water babtism)

the bible indicates that babtism if the transformation of our spirit by the Holy Spirit, and that babtism changes us, saves us and it not the work of man.

you will get a hundred different answers I suspect on this.

suddenly everyone is an expert,

Answer 4

firstoff, who types ya'll.
second, what does P.N. stand for

third aka the answer,

it seems that neither situation is complete. I mean, if you say "Go Jesus" you in a way choose Heaven, but that doesn't get you in.(it's not like you can say "take that God, i said Jesus before I died")

On the other hand, if God just judges than there's no point of everything else. ("oh sorry mother Teresa, my T quota just got filled by Tupac (he IS dead)"


I think it's like, if you live x life, you go up, if you live y life, you go down, BUT i suppose he judge's your heart (no pascal wager copouts)

the bible would seem to imply that you're judged on both faith and works, and need both for salvation.
But in Revelation Jesus talks about "lukewarm" actions, which would seem to mean half-hearted kind of living.

Answer 5

This is not a direct answer to your question, hope it will help and I agree with another contributor that these two options do not get to the heart of Christianity.
you are much more wonderful then you may think
God created you, to be like him, you are a mini God if you like.
which means you have a spirit, a bit like God's Holy Spirit
this is what’s at the core of you, the special part of you u know you have
but there’s a problem. You don't know your creator, he is far from you.
because you have sinned, because you are so free willed, and because sin was passed down to you by man,
sin is all the things you know are wrong in the world
your spirit is the most perfect and amazing part of you, but it hasn't recognized and praised God, as a result the rest of you has committed sin
God's Spirit is Holy, innocent, a bit like yours. God can’t accept sin
He's Spirit can not look upon it, the way it’s used to hurt others
and ourselves
So he sent a sacrifice to earth so we could use our freewill to praise God again, be innocent and righteous like him again, and go to heaven
when life ends.
The sacrifice was a man, a man who walked the earth,
who taught how man's mind and body had sinned, and how the spirit no longer knew God
what terrible effects sin has
and how it had separated man from God
and how he had been sent from God to teach a new sinless way for man
and how he was to die terribly as a symbol of all that’s wrong on earth, he was to take all the sin on earth onto himself, a sacrifice so we could
be forgiven by God for our sins, so we could live a innocent life and praise God again.
He's name was Jesus, and what he taught, what he did for us, and he's words are in a book.
The book is called the Bible
The message is Jesus loves you. May God bless you.

http://beginningingenesis.com/good/021.s...

Answer 6

Bravo for a well thought out and well written question.

I hope those who choose to respond give it the attention it deserves. Star city. I also hope they come to realize that the question cannot be resolved either way... that both fatalism and free will are written into the Bible, (and the Cu'ran if you'd like,) and that they are direct opposites... it's impossible to assume both are true.

Of course, as an atheist, I see the gymnastics of formulating an answer to this nonsense as being purely a waste of human energy... but, let's let the believers discover that on their own.

Thanks again for the question.

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb62/Randall_Fleck/Class_of_the_atheist_GIF-1.gif
[][][] r u randy? [][][]
.

Answer 7

God does not judge first off. We are all of His children, and He loves us all deeply...more then any love you can experience here on earth.Do you think He wnats to send you to hell? No, He wants you to be saved, but instead people turn away from Him, close their hearts to Him. You need to do the right things and love Him because YOU want to. Not because your think your gonna get into heaven that way. He doesnt decide where we go....He just looks at what we did with our life..the life He gave us.

Answer 8

The blood of Christ washes away our sin.
The will of God is that we believe His Son.

Nothing you can do will ever be greater than what Jesus did on the Cross.
Jesus did the work.




John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. [ Or God's only begotten Son]


John 6:29
Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

John 8:24
I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be, [ Or I am he; also in verse 28] you will indeed die in your sins."



John 11:26
and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?"

John 20:31
But these are written that you may [ Some manuscripts may continue to] believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.




1 Timothy 1:16
But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his unlimited patience as an example for those who would believe on him and receive eternal life.

Hebrews 11:6
And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

1 John 3:23
And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us


1 John 5:13
[ Concluding Remarks ] I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life

Jude 1:5
Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord [ Some early manuscripts Jesus] delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe.

If you do not believe Jesus, your sin remains and you will be judged for your sins.

We who believe will be judged by what we did in the body of Christ, not our sins

Answer 9

it looks like we need to start differentiating between emotional love, and sexual attraction. while emotional love is necessary for better health, and well being. physical love, is necessary for production of offspring. neither one has any influence on survival of the fittest. . survival of the fittest, is based on the strong preying on the weak. and in the animal kingdom, where they fight for the right to breed. and only the strong are allowed to breed, thus passing on the stronger genes. perhaps this is the reason that female dogs, have attained such a bad name.

Answer 10

''Will God* judge me (will he send me "up" or "down" as he sees fit) or is it that I decide (and he has no say)?''

It's both and neither!

You can decide to accept the sacrifice for our sins and His dissension to hell to pay for our sins and open the gates of heaven and then his ascension to heaven. If you do this and live your life accordingly you are making a decision and John 3:16 is a promise and He never breaks a promise only we do.

It's ultimately His decision not ours. But people send themselves to hell not God.