Question to atheists (and others, I guess): are any of us actually open minded or do we just say so?

Question

I've seen it asked on here multiple times what it would take for atheists to turn into Christians, and the main answer given is "proof" or the "personal experience" that Christians and others are always talking about. But I've also seen several people say that if they were to experience something supernatural, they would assume their mind was playing tricks on them or they were going crazy.

You know I'm not here to try and change anyone's mind so please don't jump to assumptions about that. I'm just wondering....doesn't that part about assuming your mind is playing tricks to you completely negate the claim that you'd change your religious views if you had a religious experience? This isn't just about Christianity, it could be the same with Paganism, etc. I guess I could even pose this to Christians: would you be open minded enough to change your views if Thor spoke to you, or would you assume it was a demon or something and try to explain it away? Is anyone truly open minded?

The issue here seems to go deeper than just what we experience, it's more about how we interpret our interactions with the world. For example, I can't ever imagine believing that this is all there is to life, and that all truth can be found in empiricism. Most atheists I know would say the opposite: they can't imagine finding truth outside of empricism and rationality. While we can get along just fine if we respect the other point of view, it does seem that neither of us is actually open minded. Half the time being set in your ways is seen as a virtue, the other half it's seen as stubborn closed-mindedness. Okay, I'll stop rambling now...

Eleventy: I agree with you 100%. That's why I don't try to push my beliefs on others. I guess I'm talking if *you* were to experience something.

This is based on a couple of things I read here: one girl said she experienced something that had no rational explanation, but since she believes everything has a rational explanation that MUST have one too, even though she can't find one. It just must. The other is someone else saying if he ever encountered something supernatural, he'd be convinced he was crazy instead of thinking that something supernatural had happened.

Simon: I never claimed God was omni-anything. I'm talking really generally here, belief in *anything* other than what's emprical, not necessarily belief in my god, or anyone elses.

Answer 1

Opening my mind doesn't need to necessitate a willingness to accept just ANYTHING into it. Open mindedness needn't allow absolute nonsense. The nonsensical, the self-contradictory, the epistemologically worthless, etc.

I DID, however, take the time to consider them in the past, and that alone constitutes an open mindedness that many never approach. But I DID investigate and honestly consider spirituality, the god concept and faith. Coming to a conclusion after a genuine inspection shouldn't indicate to you that I've always been closed to the concepts or that I'm closed off from new information.

By the way, I also don't agree with your assessment that defaulting to rational avenues of thought is somehow not open minded. Rational thought, REASON, is the only way we can "figure things out" for sure... it's an epistemologically valid exercise. Even the faithful must turn to reason, though some don't like to admit such a thing.

Answer 2

[I don't have time to read everyone's answers, so I'm sorry if I repeat.]

My position in a nutshell: the simplest answer is the best. If we can eliminate all possible explanations so that the only rational answer is the supernatural, than I'll lean towards a supernatural explanation.

Let's look at it this way using principals outlined by David Hume:

What are the odds of a supernatural ocurrance, like say God sending you a sign - a really vague, ambiguous sign that only you can see? Considering the Earth's population, the odds might be 6 Billion to 1. Now what are the odds that you over thought the syncronicitous occurrence and perhaps misinterpreted it, meaning the event was not supernatural and you're mind is just running wild? 1 Million to 1? 10,000 to 1? 1,000 to 1? Even at 1 Million to 1,it is 6,000 times more likely that your mind is just made it all up.

Now apply that to whatever you had in mind, a miracle cure, the communing with the Holy Spirit, whatever. Whatever personal expereince I have, I rationally know that it is 10's if not 100's of thousands (or millions or billions!) of times more likely that a natural explanation is correct versus a supernatural explanation.

Can you think of an instance where a supernatural explanation is 10s of thousands of times more likely than the natural alternative? Is there one event where the *only* explanation is supernatural and a natural explanation is impossible? I can't think of one.

Answer 3

Our experiences are filtered through our brains and interpreted through what we already believe. It is very hard to shake that, to allow yourself to experience something outside of your reality tunnel. It can take an intense conversion experience, and even then the mind rebels -- like the atheists who say that they won't believe without an intense religious experience, but if they had an intense religious experience they would check in at the funny farm immediately. The human mind is like that -- resisting anything that challenges already held belief structures -- possibly as a defense mechanism to maintain one's sanity. So, for the most part, it is very difficult bordering on impossible to convince a non-believer to believe, or to convince a believer to change his or her beliefs. There are conversions, but they are often dramatic, and sometimes traumatic. As a general rule, though, for those who believe no proof is necessary, and for those who do not no proof is sufficient.

Answer 4

I'm very open minded. First personnel experience is not high on my list of proofs or evidence as every religion can point to it and it has been shown that it can be replicated (google "god helmet"). Second, while God may not leave evidence, his actions in the physical world should i.e. we should see evidence of a global flood, the exodus etc, and we should not be relying on second or third hand account of the life of his son.

I'm more than happy to respect any religion, but I'm adamant that no religion's morality should be enforced by law, or that "pseudo-science" be taught as valid in schools.

Edit:
Evidence should be taken to mean what it does in science. In this case it would be Egyptian documents with censuses of Hebrew slaves, Joseph being an adviser, detailing how the mighty Pharaoh defeated the evil Hebrew magician Moses and exiled his people. Also any civilization documenting that the sun stop or stood still, or any of the world effecting events around Christ's life. One could also hope for amputees to regularly regain their lost limbs.

Answer 5

So what is the question? It's not that God and Jesus are open minded. They are VERY clear on what is to be considered sin in the bible, homosexuality is one of them. I've never experienced a near death experiencem but i would assume that they would be enlightening to both groups of people because (I would think) that they are merely a recollection of events that will serve a purpose for those individuals to get a second chance. Hate the sin not the sinner

Answer 6

Other than through my spirit, nothing has caught my attention. Not even my own faith in YHWH. I've had some answered prayers and just a general feeling but nothing very direct.

If Thor came down and spoke to me, I would give being Asatru a great thought and I would wonder why Yahweh wouldn't do so.

If Yahweh came down and spoke to me, I would remain Yahwist, like below, a stronger faith.

If Jesus came to me in a vision like in Paul's case, I would remain a believer, albeit stronger one.

At this stage of my life disbelief in the spiritual realm is non-existent. I won't say that it can never happen, but there it is...

Answer 7

Open-mindedness is what led me to realize I'm an atheist in the first place. I was narrow-minded when I refused to entertain the concept that God doesn't exist. The only reason why I don't believe is because I have no proof. I never had a warm and fuzzy certainty inside me that God loves me and hears me or whatever. I felt left out, you know? Praying never seemed to work. I can possibly think of a few silly incidents as a child that a prayer seemed to be answered, but it wasn't a prayer regarding anything important, but rather selfish, so I'm pretty sure those "answered prayers" aren't proof of God. If I were to feel some sort of immense certainty inside about God, then yes, that would be enough to convince me, because there are plenty of things I believe that I didn't go conduct scientific tests to prove the validity of. But I've never felt it in these 25 years of life, even when I really, really wanted to, so I don't really ever expect to feel anything like that in the future.

Answer 8

To claim that there is an infinite being out there that is omnipotent, omnicognizant and all loving, but thinks that the best way to treat the humans that he loves is to kill then with floods, fires, earthquakes, diseases, tsunami, parasites, etc. Is a pretty unbelievable claim. It would take some substantial evidence to convince me.

But then an omnipotent god would be able to come up with that evidence very easily and an omnicognizant god would know exactly what evidence would be needed, and an all loving god would want to provide it to me so that I could be saved. . . . .

Answer 9

At one time I was a firm believer in THE God. You know, the one that I believed in. and everyone else was DEAD WRONG. Since leaving the trappings of religion behind I see that I was the wrong one. Who am I to say that there is no god(s)? Nobody. I just do not believe in them at this time.

I do have events happening in my life that are possibly leading me down paths that are illogical to me. They are kind of scary but only because they are unfamiliar.

For now I hold firm to the stance of "I want scientific proof that I see with my own eyes or something that I can touch"

Answer 10

Thor speaks to us through his lightning and thunder in every storm , but our scientists show us the error of our thinking . Religion tells us about three-in-one gods , virgin births , people coming back to life after being clinically dead . Our scientists tell us that it's all impossible .
So now we're stuck with two beliefs. One the land of make believe , of angels , souls , heaven , gods , and all the rest of supernatural superstitions , or the land of nature where everything is explainable and proveable .
So are you truly open minded if you believe in fairy tales ?