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I'm doing a talk about why it is reasonable to believe in creation. One of the illustrations I've come across is about how the universe is a more accurate time piece than any watch ever made, so if we came across a watch we might wonder amongst other things who made it. We would not wonder what natural process put it together. If the universe is a far more accurate timepiece, why would we conclude that it came about by a natural force rather than a supernatural one?

I think this is pretty potent reasoning, but I'm sure someone must have an argument against it. The question is - is it as potent as the 'watch' illustration?

I'm doing other research, but I need to get to the right information quickly, so I would also welcome direct comments as well as any information references.

2007-11-18 22:27:50 · 17 answers · asked by Anonymous in Society & Culture Religion & Spirituality

17 answers

Our Awesome Universe

FOR thousands of years, people have marveled at the starry heavens. On a clear night, the beautiful stars hang like shining jewels against the darkness of space. A moonlit night bathes the earth with a beauty all its own.

2 Those who think about what they see often wonder: ‘Just what is out there in space? How is it organized? Can we find out how it all got started?’ Answers to these questions would no doubt help determine more accurately why the earth with its human and other life came to be, and what the future may hold.

3 Many centuries ago, it was thought that the universe was made up of the few thousand stars that could be seen with the unaided eye. But now, with powerful instruments that scan the heavens, scientists know that there is much, much more. In fact, what has been observed is far more awesome than anyone had ever imagined. The human mind is staggered by the immensity and complexity of it all. As National Geographic magazine commented, what man is now learning about the universe has “left him stunned.”1

Awesome Size

4 In recent centuries astronomers who scanned the heavens with early telescopes noticed some fuzzy, cloudlike formations. They assumed that these were nearby clouds of gases. But in the 1920’s, as larger, more powerful telescopes came into use, these “gases” were found to be something far more immense and significant: galaxies.

5 A galaxy is a vast group of stars, gas and other material rotating around a central nucleus. Galaxies have been called island universes, for each one of them is in itself like a universe. For example, consider the galaxy we live in, which is called the Milky Way. Our solar system, that is the sun and the earth and other planets with their moons, is part of this galaxy. But it is only a very tiny part, for our Milky Way galaxy contains over 100 billion stars! Some scientists estimate at least 200 to 400 billion. And one science editor even stated: “There could be as many as five to ten trillion stars in the Milky Way galaxy.”2

6 The diameter of our galaxy spans so vast a distance that if you could travel as fast as the speed of light (186,282 miles a second) it would take you 100,000 years to cross it! How many miles is that? Well, since light travels about six trillion (6,000,000,000,000) miles in a year, multiply that by 100,000 and you have the answer: our Milky Way galaxy is about 600 quadrillion (600,000,000,000,000,000) miles in diameter! The average distance between stars within the galaxy is said to be about six light-years, or about 36 trillion miles.

7 It is almost impossible for the human mind to comprehend such size and distance. And yet, our galaxy is just the beginning of what is in outer space! There is something even more staggering. It is this: So many galaxies have now been detected that it has been said they “are as common as blades of grass in a meadow.”3 About ten billion galaxies are in the observable universe! But there are many more beyond the range of today’s telescopes. Some astronomers estimate that there are 100 billion galaxies in the universe! And each galaxy may contain hundreds of billions of stars!

Clusters of Galaxies

8 Yet, there is more. These awesome galaxies are not scattered haphazardly in space. Instead, they are usually arranged in definite groups called clusters, like grapes in a bunch. Thousands of these galactic clusters already have been observed and photographed.

9 Some clusters contain relatively few galaxies. Our Milky Way galaxy, for example, is part of a cluster of about twenty galaxies. Within this local group, there is one “neighbor” galaxy that can be seen without a telescope on a clear night. It is the Andromeda galaxy, which has a spiral shape similar to ours.

10 Other galactic clusters are made up of many dozens, perhaps hundreds or even thousands, of galaxies. One such cluster is thought to contain about 10,000 galaxies! The distance between galaxies within a cluster may average about a million light-years. However, the distance from one galactic cluster to another may be a hundred times that. And there is even evidence that the clusters themselves are arranged in “superclusters,” like bunches of grapes on a vine. What colossal size and brilliant organization!

Similar Organization

11 Coming down to our solar system, we find another superbly organized arrangement. The sun, which is a medium-sized star, is the “nucleus” around which the earth and the other planets with their moons move in precise orbits. Year after year, they revolve with such mathematical certainty that astronomers can accurately predict where they will be at any future time.

12 Looking into infinitesimal things—atoms—we see that the same precision exists. An atom is a marvel of order, resembling the order of the solar system. It includes a nucleus containing particles called protons and neutrons, surrounded by tiny orbiting electrons. All matter is made up of these building blocks. What makes one substance differ from the other is the number of protons and neutrons in the nucleus and the number and arrangement of the electrons revolving around it. This has an exquisite order, since all the elements that make up matter can be arranged in exact sequence by the number of those building blocks present.

What Is Behind This Organization?

13 As we have noted, the size of the universe is truly awesome. So is its marvelous arrangement. From the infinitely large to the infinitesimally small, from galactic clusters to atoms, the universe is characterized by superb organization. Discover magazine stated: “We perceived the order in surprise, and our cosmologists and physicists continue to find new and astonishing aspects of the order. . . . We used to say it was a miracle, and we still permit ourselves to refer to the whole universe as a marvel.”4 This orderly structure is acknowledged even in the word commonly used in astronomy to describe the universe—“cosmos.” It is defined in one dictionary as “an orderly harmonious systematic universe.”5

14 Former astronaut John Glenn noted “the orderliness of the whole universe about us,” and that the galaxies were “all traveling in prescribed orbits in relation to one another.” He therefore asked: “Could this have just happened? Was it an accident that a bunch of flotsam and jetsam suddenly started making these orbits of its own accord?” He concluded: “I can’t believe that. . . . Some Power put all this into orbit and keeps it there.”6

15 Indeed, the universe is so precisely organized that man can use the heavenly bodies as the basis for his timekeeping. But any well-designed timepiece obviously is the product of an orderly mind that has the ability to design. An orderly mind that designs can be possessed only by an intelligent person. Then what about the far more complex design and dependability that exists throughout the universe? Would this not also betoken a designer, a maker, a mind—intelligence? And do you have any reason to believe that intelligence can exist apart from personality?

16 We cannot get around it: Superb organization requires a superb organizer. Nothing in our experience indicates that anything organized happens by chance, by accident. Rather, our entire experience in life shows that everything organized must have an organizer. Every machine, computer, building, yes, even pencil and paper, had a maker, an organizer. Logically, the far more complex and awesome organization in the universe must have had an organizer too.

Law Requires a Lawmaker

17 Also, the entire universe, from atoms to galaxies, is governed by definite physical laws. There are laws for governing heat, light, sound and gravity, for example. As physicist Stephen W. Hawking said: “The more we examine the universe, we find it is not arbitrary at all but obeys certain well-defined laws that operate in different areas. It seems very reasonable to suppose that there may be some unifying principles, so that all laws are part of some bigger law.”7

18 Rocket expert Wernher von Braun went a step further when he stated: “The natural laws of the universe are so precise that we have no difficulty building a spaceship to fly to the moon and can time the flight with the precision of a fraction of a second. These laws must have been set by somebody.”8 Scientists who want a rocket to orbit the earth, or the moon, must work in harmony with such universal laws if they are to be successful.

19 When we think of laws, we acknowledge that they came from a lawmaking entity. A traffic sign that says “Stop” certainly has behind it some person or group of persons who originated the law. What, then, about the comprehensive laws that govern the material universe? Such brilliantly conceived laws surely bear witness to a supremely intelligent lawmaker.

The Organizer and Lawmaker

20 After commenting on all the special conditions of order and law that are so apparent in the universe, Science News observed: “Contemplation of these things disturbs cosmologists because it seems as if such particular and precise conditions could hardly have arisen at random. One way to deal with the question is to say the whole thing was contrived and lay it on Divine Providence.”9

21 Many persons, including many scientists, are not willing to concede that. But others are willing to acknowledge what the evidence keeps insisting—intelligence. They acknowledge that such colossal size, precision and law as exist throughout the universe could never have happened just by accident. All these things must be the products of a superior mind.

22 This is the conclusion expressed by one Bible writer who said regarding the physical heavens: “Raise your eyes high up and see. Who has created these things? It is the One who is bringing forth the army of them even by number, all of whom he calls even by name.” That “One” is identified as “the Creator of the heavens and the Grand One stretching them out.”—Isaiah 40:26; 42:5.

Source of Energy

23 Universal laws govern existing matter. But where did all the matter come from? In Cosmos, Carl Sagan says: “At the beginning of this universe, there were no galaxies, stars or planets, no life or civilizations.” He refers to the change from that state to the present universe as “the most awesome transformation of matter and energy that we have been privileged to glimpse.”10

24 That is the key to understanding how the universe could have come into existence: It must have involved a transformation of energy and matter. This relationship was verified by Einstein’s famous formula, E=mc2 (energy equals mass times the speed of light squared). One conclusion that derives from this formula is that matter can be produced from energy, just as tremendous energy can be produced from matter. The atomic bomb proved the latter. Thus, astrophysicist Josip Kleczek stated: “Most and possibly all elementary particles may be created by materialization of energy.”11

25 Hence, there is scientific evidence that a source of limitless energy would have the raw material to create the substance of the universe. The Bible writer quoted earlier noted that this source of energy is a living, intelligent personality, saying: “Due to the abundance of dynamic energy, he also being vigorous in power, not one of them [the heavenly bodies] is missing.” Thus, from the Biblical standpoint, this source of boundless energy was behind what Genesis 1:1 describes: “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.”

Beginning Not Chaotic

26 Today, scientists generally acknowledge that the universe did have a beginning. One prominent theory that attempts to describe this beginning is known as the Big Bang. “Almost all recent discussions of the origin of the universe are based on the Big Bang theory,” notes Francis Crick.12 Jastrow refers to this cosmic “explosion” as “literally the moment of creation.”13 But, as astrophysicist John Gribbin admitted in New Scientist, though scientists “claim, by and large, to be able to describe in great detail” what happened after this “moment,” what brought about “the instant of creation remains a mystery.” And, he mused, “maybe God did make it, after all.”14

27 However, most scientists are not willing to attribute this “instant” to God. Hence, the explosion usually is said to have been chaotic, like the explosion of a nuclear bomb. But does this type of explosion result in better organization? Do the bombs that fall on cities in wartime produce superbly designed buildings, streets and signs with traffic laws? On the contrary, such explosions cause wreckage, disorder, chaos, disintegration. And when the explosive device is nuclear the disorganization is total, as experienced by the Japanese cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1945.

28 No, a mere “explosion” could not create our awesome universe with its amazing order, design and law. Only a mighty organizer and lawmaker could direct the powerful forces at work so that they would result in superb organization and law. Hence, scientific evidence and reason provide solid backing for the Bible’s declaration: “The heavens are declaring the glory of God; and of the work of his hands the expanse is telling.”—Psalm 19:1.

29 Thus, the Bible comes to grips with questions that evolutionary theory has not clearly addressed. Instead of leaving us in the dark as to what is behind the origin of all things, the Bible tells us the answer simply and understandably. It confirms the observations of science, as well as our own, that nothing comes into existence by itself. Although we personally were not on hand when the universe was constructed, it is evident that it had to have a Master Builder, as the Bible reasons: “Every house is constructed by someone, but he that constructed all things is God.”—Hebrews 3:4.

2007-11-19 00:37:12 · answer #1 · answered by Anonymous · 2 1

Potent reasoning? That an invisible, silent and non-intervening wizard in the sky made everything? Potent reasoning? It is the same silly nonsense often spouted by the deluded and carries no weight whatsoever in an adult conversation. The watch story is just ridiculous in its infantile assumptions.
It is FAR more likely that everything occurred naturally than an inflated leprechaun threw it together one day. That is plainly very childish thinking. You're not kidding that someone (science) has an argument against this drivel.

You want some good advice? Get a copy of Bill Bryson's 'A Short History Of Nearly Everything'. That will give you the answers you need in an easy to read and easy to understand way - even providing some humour along the way.

Bear in mind that ALL gods in the history of thinking mankind were invented by mankind and, as time progressed, most were dumped in favour of a better offer - even if the offer was a confidence trick. I can't believe that anyone with a modicum of an education and ability to apply intelligence is STILL falling for these archaic stories in 2007.

My guess is that you are in the US ... That's usually the case.

Who is your 'talk' to? Impressionable children? DON'T DO IT. You are poisoning young minds. It is mental cruelty!!!

2007-11-18 22:43:56 · answer #2 · answered by Anonymous · 2 0

First of all, according to surveys of the National Academy of Sciences less than 20% of scientists believe there is a god and fewer still believe in a personal god. That said, no logical fallacy is a good argument for anything. If believers actually had faith in what they call "God's Word" being special revelation, they'd let the stories and letters speak for themselves instead of arguing over degrees of inerrancy, historiosity, scientific reliability and infallibility, something scripture itself never does. If the Bible is a special revelation from God, then it's point is the contents, not the analysis of the contents. My advice to believers: let your stories and letters do your talking. If it really is a revelation from God it will do more than all your grade-school level apologetics and name-calling. Tell the story of David and Goliath and let it do what your God intends instead of starting fights over whether giants exist or the story is a literal history. Tell the story of the resurrection without fighting about proving people can rise from the dead after three days. Tell the Eden story without fighting about how God could make plants before sunlight. Christians in particular waste a lot of time here making arguments about such things, none of which are persuasive, but the stories of the Bible, the letters of the apostles, have persuaded millions over the years without the fabulous apologetic talents of the untrained and largely ignorant laity.

2016-05-24 04:16:43 · answer #3 · answered by ? 3 · 0 0

I don't know anything about the accurate time.

What has scientists wondering though is the fact that the universe seems incredibly tuned to conditions that will allow life. For example, the amount of matter is just enough to allow stars to form. A little more matter and the universe collapses back together too fast; a little less and the universe expands too fast to form stars. The list of these "just right" constants is impressive. The only answer from the atheists is the multiverse theory and that is now their darling. The multiverse is the answer to everything but it can neither be proven nor disproven so I think it's not science.

2007-11-18 22:40:44 · answer #4 · answered by Matthew T 7 · 1 3

If a (man made) atomic clock had started ticking at the moment of the big bang it would by now be only five seconds fast. So I suppose that is fairly accurate.

Although he is an agnostic, the physicist Paul Davies relatively open to the "fine tuning" argument. However, if you are looking for soomebody to tell you the universe is only 6,000 years old, no reputable physicist is going to do that. You would probably have to look around his site for something of interest to you.

http://cosmos.asu.edu/

2007-11-18 23:13:54 · answer #5 · answered by Anonymous · 1 0

The Bible is a good source. Faith is the reason we believe in creation. Far from being a cliche to say this, but if we follow the reasoning given by the Bible, we will see why faith is the reason.

Let's begin with Hebrews 11. It's no coincidence why the first example of faith is the creation of the world. "By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible." (Hebrews 11:3)

Faith is believing before seeing. Anyone can believe after they see. But that is not faith. Faith is believing in the evidence of things not seen. Hence, Paul wrote, "We walk by faith, not by what we see." (2 Corinthians 5:7)

God is a faith God. When God saw darkness in the beginning, He did not say, " I don't see any light, so I don't believe there is light." No, God believed in what He did not see, and God called forth what He wanted. God spoke, "Let there be light!" And there was light. (Genesis 1:3)

It is helpful to remember not to get too complicated in our reasoning. All we need to do is to be like a little child. God loves to teach a child who is humble, but resists those who are wise in their own eyes. Jesus said at one time, "I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and revealed them to babes (or infants)." (Luke 10:21)

I shall not explain too much, but give you some references on creation.

John 1:3 says all things were made through Jesus, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

Proverbs 8:22-31 describes how Jesus, who is personified as Wisdom, was with the Father at the beginning, being involved in every aspect of creation of the heavens and the earth, as well as creation of humans, in whom they take delight.

Colossians 1:15-20 explains the reason for creation - "All things were created through Him (Jesus) and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist." (verses 16-17)

Psalm 104 describes how God's creations function in daily lives. Verses 5-9 hints at where the floodwaters of Noah's flood ended up - they were absorbed into the deep mantle of the earth's interior, until the waters reach the current sea levels. I think I read somewhere in geology books that there are huge reservoirs of underground waters below the earth's crust.

Psalm 19:1-6 speaks of how the natural wonders of the world declare the glory of God and show His handiwork, proclaiming Him and revealing knowledge about Him. We are often too busy in our daily lives to take notice of our surroundings. :)

Psalm 33:6-22 speaks of how the Lord made the heavens and the stars, and how He fashions the hearts of humans individually.

Long before modern science and astronomy came into the picture, Job wrote by the Holy Spirit that "God hangs the earth on nothing", and revealed that the earth is circular (or round), not flat. (Job 26:7-14)

Last but certainly not least, as my knowledge is still very limited, compared to God's infinite wisdom contained in the Bible, let's turn to Isaiah 40 where it says the Lord is equal to none, and needs no one to counsel or instruct Him in creation and managing the universe. "The everlasting God, the Lord, the Creator of the ends of the earth, neither faints nor is weary. His understanding is unsearchable." (verse 28)

2007-11-18 23:26:35 · answer #6 · answered by Music and dancing 6 · 1 0

It's not an easy read but 'A Brief History of Time, by Stephen Hawking pretty much explains what you need to know.

Of course the attraction of a creator is its simplicity. It requires no mental or intellectual effort to believe in such nonsense.

Basically, it depends if you want to make an effort, or accept ancient mythology and superstiion.

2007-11-18 22:40:45 · answer #7 · answered by Anonymous · 3 1

"...why would we conclude that it [the universe] came about by a natural force rather than a supernatural one?"

Because natural forces can be tested. The supernatural, by its very definition, cannot be tested, or even shown to exist.
.

2007-11-18 22:44:50 · answer #8 · answered by YY4Me 7 · 2 0

Pray to the Flying Spaghetti Monster and an answer will come.
Also looking up some science books will help.

2007-11-19 00:36:58 · answer #9 · answered by Anonymous · 1 0

The watch illustration is a logical fallacy,just like the one where you wake up in a locked house and breakfast has been made for you.Utter nonsense.

2007-11-18 22:38:19 · answer #10 · answered by Cotton Wool Ninja 6 · 3 1

Natural? Well, scientists saw galaxies moving away from one point. So they concluded that there was an explosion big enough to move the whole universe away from a point. That's how they came up with the Big Bang.

2007-11-18 22:32:37 · answer #11 · answered by Windona 4 · 3 2

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