Is choosing the Christian god (a.k.a. heaven) really a choice - check my logic...?

Question

Let's look at the Christian rules:

1) I have free will to worship/obey god, or not.

2) There are no alternatives to god (i.e. no other gods.) I can ONLY embrace god, OR reject god.

3) Once I am aware of the Christian god, I MUST choose

4) I can not "opt out".

So let's say my entire life I've neither acknowledged god's existence, nor rejected him. He's just a non-issue... something I never once thought about or considered. According to Christianity, if I don't decide by my death to embrace god, by default I am damned, even if I never once actively thought "god I reject you."

Logically, was I given a FAIR choice? The second I was exposed to the knowledge of god's existence, WHETHER I WANTED THIS KNOWLEDGE OR NOT, I was then forced to make a choice which I wasn't forced to make prior to that exposure. So in reality, god (or his followers) took my freedom away from me, because now I have to choose!

What happened to my FREE will?

Dan, for the sake of this question, we are assuming the Christian god exists (sigh.)

Answer 1

Well I believe that your free will was taken away once you were given the Hobson's choice of their God or no god(s).

Of course, I don't stay up at night worrying about it.

Answer 2

If by "free will" you mean ignorance of the truth, then I suppose you could say that it was robbed from you. It's too bad that you see it that way, though. God sent Jesus Christ into the world so that we COULD have the choice to live forever with Him.

Using a very loose analogy, it's like The Matrix. Once Neo knew the truth, he then had the free will to choose whether or not to live in the real world or to ignorantly continue living his life on earth. Before he was aware of the real world, he didn't have a choice. Jesus Christ gave us that choice. :) A wonderful, spectacular life is waiting for you if you simply repent of your sins and put your faith and trust in Him . . . a life far better than you could ever have wished for.

"Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, nor have entered into the heart of man the things which God has prepared for those who love Him.” - 1 Corinthians 2:9

Answer 3

That's what I always said when I was force fed religion growing up. There is no free will in that scenario. I also see it as a catch 22 in a weird way. You have only 2 choices when in reality there is an infinite number of choices. It's like saying you have 2 choices in how you can die. Being shot with a gun or being hung by a rope. I don't want either one because I don't want to die. Why should I choose if I don't want to die? No free will here either.

Answer 4

It really seems funny that "some" people are so obsessed with their "free will," that they dont even doubt (ha ha) that they HAVE free will, to accept or reject. The God who gave them life, who "called them by name in their mother's womb," of course, doesnt exist. But sacred free will is alive and living in Argentina, like Hitler. If it is not there every minute to comfort them----then someone must have taken it away from them. Help, Politsei!!!!! Achtung, mein free will has been stolen.Oh, take my purse, my boa, but NOT my free will. Give me freedom or give me death. Death to the schweinhunten !!! Ja Ja, mein freedom!!! Mein Kampf.

Answer 5

I have often wondered the same thing about their arguments. Where does free will come in when i have only one of two choices. That is like calling America a Democracy when we are given only two real choices for President.

Answer 6

[QUOTE]
Once I am aware of the Christian god, I MUST choose
[END QUOTE]

God has no religion.
--M Gandhi

Religions place an exclusive claim on god ~it's our way, or the highway to hell ~ but god is not exclusive to anyone or any one religion.

I understand you are not suggesting that. I'm just throwing in my .02 for R&S readers.

I don't feel qualified to answer your question as I don't ascribe to 2, 3 and 4 of the christian rules that are listed. I'm more of an equal opportunity chimp taking pieces parts of many religious teachings to broaden my understanding of 'All That Is'.

Answer 7

Your logic is flawed. Assuming the reality of something is not in doubt, free will has no meaning. Do you doubt there is a sky? Or such things as mountains? Do you lament your loss of "free will" over such things?

Now, the existence of the Christian God has not been proven (or disproven), so the choice to believe or not is yours. But don't confuse the logic of matters of fact with the logic of matters of faith.

EDIT:

"Dan, for the sake of this question, we are assuming the Christian god exists (sigh.)"

Exactly my point. Once the existence of something is no longer in doubt, the idea of free will is null. The free will to believe or not is relevant only so long as the truth of the matter is in doubt.

Answer 8

#1 is correct.
#2 is correct.
#3 is correct.
#4 is correct.

Your first paragraph contradicts your fourth point. Also you cannot claim you don't have this knowledge. It's a moot point right now.

Your second paragraph is really consternation and complaint that you have to choose. You really liked life before this choice was put before your mind. Now life will not be the same. You will go one of two ways. You will utterly reject Christ with bitter denial, or you will believe what you are afraid that your heart is telling you is true. You have a conflict in your soul. I suggest that you begin by reading the Book of John in the New Testament and let it go where it goes. What does that cost you? So, why not?

Answer 9

Your logic, as always, is impeccable. Their ability to ignore it, as always, is omnipresent.

Do you ever wonder what one of them would or could say if they actually acknowledged, here and to you and everyone, that you are right, your logic is unavoidably true, and that they agree with you? How could they reconcile their faith and your words at the same time? Clearly, what you say goes against the Christian dogma, so they would be like trapped mice, with no way out except to either deny undeniable logic, or deny their faith in the Christian teachings about free will.

The two can't be reconciled. They choose their faith, at least publicly, because to do otherwise is too terrifying for them. They fear hell much more than they fear looking foolish by dancing around the obvious truth.

They answer in an effort to show that they can talk their way around it. They can't.

Good one, again!
Ciao,
Lady Morgana )0(

Answer 10

I see your point and your logic seems straight; and so, if the only option, not choosing anything at all, is a law attributed to Gods will then you're screwed.

It seems to come right back to the free will vs fate question... If it's your fate to deny God and be damned, you now have two ways to do it. You can openly say "I reject God" or you can simply refuse the process of deciding. The result is the same either way. Damned if you do - Damned if you don't.

Stinks like rotten fish, doesn't it ?... LOL

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb62/Randall_Fleck/disgrace_GIF.gif.
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